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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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 Post subject: hayabusa throttle bodies
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:35 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:00 pm
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Location: a liitle village called Gilberdyke
well my car is in the final process of gettin these fitted. wot gains should i expect t see? iv also got tighe 952 cams, head ported with exhaust side polished, janspeed manifold and a s/s 1 3/4 inch exhaust with no catalitic converter. should i b hopin for 140hp ish?

tempo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:01 pm 
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi Tempo,

When you finish, let us know.
I think Oz had his car 30% more than std.
So you may be 130ish?
1.75" is bit on small side, is it not?
I think Oz used bigger than that.
I will be using 1.75" system, too.

What duration is your camshaft?
Do you have underdrive pulley?

Post your finding on UKswift, too.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:21 am 
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Location: a liitle village called Gilberdyke
wot did oz hav on his car? mods wise? i dont have any underdrive pullys. are they any good? my cams are the tighe 952 but not sure on the duration. check out their website.

dug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:21 pm 
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi,
This is from his signature plus info added by me.

1986 Mk1 GTi running cams(BD13 or 14), cam gears, R1 quad carbs, airbox, 80mm cold air intake, extractors and 2" exhaust.

I think cams were cosworth profile and 256 or 258 duraration....I think.

If you see his profile, you will see his ex-car, he has sold it now.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: .....
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2002 5:10 pm
Posts: 1644
Location: Brisbane
The actual grind was Cosworth 553/D2..neither BD 10 or BD14. Are you using TB's or carbs? If you are using TB's, what engine management are you using? I had a 2" exhaust on my car. IF the car is tuned right, with the ported head you may well see 140hp atf with those cam specs, etc. You did not mention cam gears - they are essential.

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Don't ask me, I don't know anything. And just because I'm a senior member, it does not mean I have as many wrinkles as ellpee. 1500+ posts and still I haven't got a clue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:09 am 
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Location: a liitle village called Gilberdyke
im using throttle bodies. .so i can keep the ecu. he says they they will b better than carbs. im not sure wot engine management to use. wot do u recommend? my tuner is modifying the standard cam wheels.

dug


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 Post subject: .....
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:21 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Your stock ecu will not run with the TB's. As for recommending one....well - we have around 20 manufacturers available here so the choices are numerous. Good call on modifying the stock wheel - some folks charge stupid money for pretty ones.

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Don't ask me, I don't know anything. And just because I'm a senior member, it does not mean I have as many wrinkles as ellpee. 1500+ posts and still I haven't got a clue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:52 pm 
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Location: a liitle village called Gilberdyke
i asked my tuner bout the ecu and he sed the standard one will b able to run the throttle bodies fine.

dug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:29 pm 
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Location: Brisbane
Really....well, be interesting to see if he is right....or if your car gets all upset over the lack of a MAF.....

Or, if you plumb one into the end of whatever airbox you may use, if the stock MAF, fuel maps, ignition curve, etc likes the very different induction setup you are making. My guess is no....but time will tell - I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

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Don't ask me, I don't know anything. And just because I'm a senior member, it does not mean I have as many wrinkles as ellpee. 1500+ posts and still I haven't got a clue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:50 pm 
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Location: Rivendell
Geeez OZ,
don' burst dugs bubl. He sed his tuna cn make it werk. believe hm.
(so, long as the tuna don' take as mny shtcts as hs splng)

yes, It will be interesting won't it.

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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 Post subject: .
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:01 am 
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It's that damn honesty thing...always biting me in the ass.

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Don't ask me, I don't know anything. And just because I'm a senior member, it does not mean I have as many wrinkles as ellpee. 1500+ posts and still I haven't got a clue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:26 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:00 pm
Posts: 268
Location: a liitle village called Gilberdyke
he works and tunes up superbikes etc. i think il take his word for it. hope he is rite as i wont b lookin forward t payin 400 quid on a decent ecu. hehe. il let u no how it works out

dug


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:55 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Windsor
OzMidnight wrote:
Really....well, be interesting to see if he is right....or if your car gets all upset over the lack of a MAF.....

Or, if you plumb one into the end of whatever airbox you may use, if the stock MAF, fuel maps, ignition curve, etc likes the very different induction setup you are making. My guess is no....but time will tell - I'll be happy to be proven wrong.


with no injectors, or maf the ecu is probably only there now to run the tach and spark and probably some other things.
it shouldent complain about that. other than that, the engine should be running on it's own with the carb.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:58 pm 
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Location: Rivendell
Errr,

they're throttle bodies Bob. not carbs....

_________________
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:08 am 
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Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
Well I'd like to purchase 1 ticket to watch the tuning session please, anybody that can get a stock zuki computer to run quad throttle bodies is a magician in my book...

Hey LP, good to see you are back, I just about sent out the rescue party to see if you were still alive :razz:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:21 pm 
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Location: Rivendell
holidays matey. and too busy to have fun....

Of course, he could have a manifold made to support a maf, but then it kind of defeats the purpose of quad tb's..... then of course, why would you need a tuner?

_________________
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:21 pm
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi Lin,

I think he went with carbs in the end.
You will see his post here.
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=21220

How are you doing anyway?
I'm still busy making gearshifts and all of that to make it to work...

Too many problem and it is more than I can handle..... :lol: .

I will get there......very slowly.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject: Hayabusa throtle bodies
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:30 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Houston, TX
Is the stumbling block to making the Hayabusa throtle bodies work the need for an aftermarket ECU? No one else has been successful swapping the throtle bodies with or without a new ECU? What about the actual physical fitting of the throtle bodies. Is it a direct bolt on or do new bolt holes need to be drilled??? I am curious as to what is needed to make this swap work.
Thank You


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:51 pm 
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi,

I think making a manifold is easy bit.
Making TB work with your enigne will be more difficult.
There are 2 ways of making inlet manifold for G13B.
1:- use std inlet and cut them up and use rubber(silicon) to fix TB.
2:- Make complete one off like mine and use rubber mounting as per std. bike.

Eitherway, you will need rubber mount of some kind.

I just thought of something.

If you use std ECU, why can you not run with MAF?
I think (correct me if I'm wrong.... probably I am but..) if you use an airbox with long air tube and get MAF from other cars(bigger capacity ones) just after the air filter with TPS.

Can you not use std ECU?
I think you will need to use bigger capacity injector like from mk2 ones.
I'm sure you will need to adjust fuel mixture.....
Well, I don't know much about injection system so....

I think I will stick with my carbs.

Regards
Atchi


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:30 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Houston, TX
Atchi,
Thanks for the response. I guess that the electronic interphase is the difficult part not the physical mount.
Jorge


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:23 pm 
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Location: Rivendell
Hi Atchi,

long time eh? Yeah I have been sidetracked recently. Please don;t get me on the maf bandwagon. I've been trying to crack a map sensor to replicate a maf sensor for some time. While I get a decent signal out of a map sensor, and can calibrate against an existing system, compensation for temp/altitude is a sticky point.

Our Suzuki's use two heat elements in the maf, one in the air flow, one in static air as a compensatory sense element for atmospheric conditions. the first element provides a 0-5 v signal, the second element delivers a current sense. annoying but if anyone can think of a way to sort this my ears are wide open.

_________________
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:49 pm 
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Former TeamSwift Admin
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Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:58 am
Posts: 8146
Location: Seattle, WA
a hotwire maf sensor like the ones used in the gt's can't directly be translated to a map sensor because the hotwire setup is also factoring in air temp, while a map only gives you air pressure. if you're modifying the way your engine breathes in such a drastic way as ITB's, you really ought to finish the job with a stand alone ecu.. caarlo has already been kind enough to post the code for hooking directly into the stock distributor and everything ....
getting a decent/steady map signal off the throttle bodies will still be a bit of a challenge...
I'm working on a similar project now putting ITB's onto some porsche engines at work :)

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'92 Swift GT, '94 Swift GT, '88 Turbo Sprint, '98 Swift ... all sold years ago


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:21 am 
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi,

I knew it!
This is why I am using R1 carbs!
Once setup, you won't need to fiddle for a while.
My carbs are only 1000 miles old so it will be good for while, too.

Cheers
Atchi


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:03 am 
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Had to re-register here to make a comment - old account was inactive for some reason. anyway

I've have fitted GSXR 750 TB's to my G13B engine. These are 42mm diameter.
It's running an MBE programmable ECU using the throttle pot as the driver (i.e. ECU is running off throttle angle - no MAP sensor)

Throttle response is excellent - a big improvement over the previous set up which was the same engine running a Cultus intake manifold fitted with a 60mm Throttle Body from a Nissan & running the MBE ECU (again with throttle anglke driving the ECU - no MAF). The peak power figure was actually the same with both set-ups but the torque and throttle response with the ITB's is much better.



There is so much talk of trying to use the swift ECU on here with ITB's - it would be a complete waste of time. Programmable aftermarket ECU is the only way to go. The flexibility you get with an aftermarket ECU makes it worth the cost.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:57 pm
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Location: Prostejov
gn3 wrote:
Had to re-register here to make a comment - old account was inactive for some reason. anyway

I've have fitted GSXR 750 TB's to my G13B engine. These are 42mm diameter.
It's running an MBE programmable ECU using the throttle pot as the driver (i.e. ECU is running off throttle angle - no MAP sensor)

Throttle response is excellent - a big improvement over the previous set up which was the same engine running a Cultus intake manifold fitted with a 60mm Throttle Body from a Nissan & running the MBE ECU (again with throttle anglke driving the ECU - no MAF). The peak power figure was actually the same with both set-ups but the torque and throttle response with the ITB's is much better.

There is so much talk of trying to use the swift ECU on here with ITB's - it would be a complete waste of time. Programmable aftermarket ECU is the only way to go. The flexibility you get with an aftermarket ECU makes it worth the cost.



Hallo
Please, can you post pics and more details of your setup??? Maps of fuel and ignition??

I have very similar setup, which I now start to tune.

ITB from GSX-R 750
knife edged, polished, balanced crank
lightened, balanced, polished rods
cultus pistons 74mm 11:1
Shaved head and block to compression around 12:1
Full race spec head
Modified stock valves
Cams 290 duration 9,5mm lift
Modified cams wheels for timing
Rospend exhaust manifold
Exhaust system inside diameter 54mm
Lightened flywheel

Megasquirt MS-II ECU

That all together with dog-box transmission and in my Swift Kit car with around 700kg (hope that less :-))) ) for hillclibming.

Lander

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