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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:20 pm 
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i have gained access to a small 4 axis cnc machine and my own personal cad engineer. its a high school buddy so design and machining processes will be very affordable. i plan to pass the savings on to my fellow swift/metro enthusiasts here, and maybe on ebay as well. the cnc has 12x12x24 capacity so flywheels are on the menu.

i have some questions:

do i need to offer machining services for the regular 3cylinder flywheels or should i just have the program written to machine the turbo and gti flywheels?

any realistic pricing suggestions would be appreciated as well. i want to be well under whats already out there for the flywheel lightening, and the aluminum flywheels as well. i have seen the price for a nice skeletonized stock wheel at 275 plus shipping both ways. aluminum flywheels i have seen at 500-600.

i am planning to skeletonize the gti flywheel, resurface it, cut the back smooth, and offer it for stock clutches, springless hub clutches, 5.5", and 4.5" racing clutches. no one makes a flywheel for a multi disc racing clutch for our cars currently.

is anyone willing to pay 750 - 1000 for a 4.5 or 5.5" racing clutch for their car? the moment of inertia gains to be had here are amazing when strapped to a tiny engine. not to mention they are available in multi disc setups all the way to 4 discs, to hold well over 1000 ft pounds of torque. the discs are available in kevlar, bronze, and iron depending on usage and wants. the seat of the pants difference going from a 9 pound, 7 3/4" clutch thats slips on launch, to a 2.5 pound 4.5" clutch that will take anything you've got is nothing short of amazing.

the 3cyl flywheel has a deep cut on the backside and im worried that machining it down for the smaller 4 or 5" racing clutches would weaken it severely. i am shipping one to the engineer so he can take a look tho.

i have several options here and am looking for your feedback as to what you guys want.

i might be able to machine the 3 cyl flywheels to accept the gti clutches as well as lightening them.

i am also going to make aluminum flywheels to accept the stock pressfit ring gears. i will probably help secure it with 4 small bolts for good measure.

i plan to make 6000 series alum crank pulleys, waterpump pulleys, and alt pulleys as well. the crank pulleys will be stock and underdriven. 4 or 5 bolt. a/c or no, and 3 or 4 rib on the alt belt. i may also make a custom pulley with 5 ribs for my eaton m62 supercharger setup for 3cyl cars with no ac. i would make it available along with a custom supercharger mount/intake manifold kit with built in water to air aftercooler.

also i will be making a steel alternator bracket to fit a chevy cs130 alternator as well as a 2000 daewoo leganza alternator, which is a delco cs120 that puts out 85 amps and is considerably smaller then the cs130.... i will make alt pulleys for both in 3 and 4 ribs in mutiple diameters. also a 5 rib for the supercharger kit. hopefully, the alternator will effectively be the supercharger belt tensioner in my kit.

also on my list are custom front caliper brackets to mount large 4 piston billet radial or lug mount wilwood calipers to gti, late model, or convertible knuckles. also might build lug mount brackets if you guys want them. they will be sold as custom aluminum paperweights. if you choose to use them in any other fashion, good for you.

some other suggestions are adjustable strup tops front and rear, billet adjustable cam gears, billet motor and trans mounts that accept standard "builder" poly bushes, billet adj short throw shifters, and billet rear hub carriers to put discs on metro drum spindles. any more ideas?

any input, critisizms, suggestions, or feedback will be taken into consideration. let me know if you have any other ideas as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:27 am 
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Wow thats some big plans, get half a dozen things on that list done and I'll be impressed.
dethbrd wrote:
no one makes a flywheel for a multi disc racing clutch for our cars currently.
is anyone willing to pay 750 - 1000 for a 4.5 or 5.5" racing clutch for their car?

I'll have to answer YES and NO, the Twin plate clutches are extremely expensive, that would be a sizeable chunk out of my racing budget, the market for people wanting flywheels to suit twin plate clutches for swifts and metro's would be VERY small, maybe a couple per year worldwide at best, I purchased a dmwdave 3kg billet flywheel and run a daiken heavy duty clutch, the flywheel made a difference but it wasn't massive, I doubt saving another few lb's on the clutch would improve my laptimes by more than a tenth or two.


dethbrd wrote:
i might be able to machine the 3 cyl flywheels to accept the gti clutches as well as lightening them.

I can't see the point of machining a 3 cyl flywheel, it's so much heavier to begin with, 4 cyl flywheels are not that hard to find surely?



You can put me down for a underdriven crank pulley with toothed wheel on the front for driving a drysump pump please :twisted:

I would like an alloy bearing carrier for the intermediate shaft on the gti, thats heavy, sized to fit a more common bearing would be a great idea.

I like the idea of alloy engine brackets that take a universal bush.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am 
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Dattman wrote:
Wow thats some big plans, get half a dozen things on that list done and I'll be impressed.
dethbrd wrote:
i am disabled now.....and have alot of spare time sitting on my ass so autocad here i come

no one makes a flywheel for a multi disc racing clutch for our cars currently.
is anyone willing to pay 750 - 1000 for a 4.5 or 5.5" racing clutch for their car?


I'll have to answer YES and NO, the Twin plate clutches are extremely expensive, that would be a sizeable chunk out of my racing budget, the market for people wanting flywheels to suit twin plate clutches for swifts and metro's would be VERY small, maybe a couple per year worldwide at best, I purchased a dmwdave 3kg billet flywheel and run a daiken heavy duty clutch, the flywheel made a difference but it wasn't massive, I doubt saving another few lb's on the clutch would improve my laptimes by more than a tenth or two.

i think the difference with the clutch would be just as much as going to an aluminum flywheel. it would save maybe 6.5 pounds and drastically reduce moment of inertia. a light flywheel, a tiny clutch, and an aluminum pulley on a 3cyl motor would be so much of a difference...i am considering putting the stock flywheel back on my car to do a dyno run before i get my clutch, flywheel, pulley setup installed just to show how much better it is. but you are correct about the price...its huge. you also have to consider the lessened clutch effort and increased torque capacity. i have to wait until i buy my wife a new mini cooper before i can go to the 5 inch clutch...cant have her riding that bitch in traffic.....lol

dethbrd wrote:
i might be able to machine the 3 cyl flywheels to accept the gti clutches as well as lightening them.

I can't see the point of machining a 3 cyl flywheel, it's so much heavier to begin with, 4 cyl flywheels are not that hard to find surely?

its nearly impossible.....lol. i have purchased 2 gti/g10t flywheels now. one i got in a package deal from rallydude, so it was very affordable, the other i searched for for months and paid 70 bucks with shipping from ebay. i figured if i could write a program to machine your already in hand, or readily available g10 flywheel, id be making it much easier and cheaper on the end user. im not sure its even possible at this point, but i am going to do at least one just to see the final weight and cost of machining. i have seen several trackers and sammys in the yard with 5 speeds...i dont know if these will work or not....and its a pain in the ass pulling a tranny alone at a wrecking yard...i cannot do it....bad back and resulting surgeries.

You can put me down for a underdriven crank pulley with toothed wheel on the front for driving a drysump pump please :twisted:

i have never run a dry sump system...i am assuming its a cogged belt? outboard of your current crank pulley? i would think that there is only a very very small market for one of these as you are the only person ive ever heard mention it. i am willing to try it though. it may take awhile to get to it, but if you can work with me on the specs....i will see what i can do. im sure it will cost more than a regular dual belt underdrive pulley just due to the fact that you may be the only person who uses it....lol if you had an extra drive gear to let me borrow, it would be much easier. i have seen some of your stuff, you seem to be a very competent parts fabricator and mechanic. do you use autocad? we could collaborate via email on this design as well.

I would like an alloy bearing carrier for the intermediate shaft on the gti, thats heavy, sized to fit a more common bearing would be a great idea.

this is a great idea...use a cheap readily available bearing from autozone or discount auto.....and make it light and easy to remove. i have purchased a shaft and carrier from rallydude already. i just have not requested that he ship it yet because i dont own a 4 cyl motor. i can make this happen. my son is wanting to build a badass dohc metro anyway, so i will need one myself.
i also might figure out a mount to put the int shaft on the 3 cyl motor

I like the idea of alloy engine brackets that take a universal bush.


i have 2 of the 3 cyl brackets in my hand, need the 3rd to get started. i also would need someone to loan me the full set of 4 cyl mounts to work off of as i cannot find them in the junkyard here.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:11 pm 
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has anybody purchased poly engine and trans mounts? where from and how much?

i have heard you could buy some custom poly inserts on ebay but havent been able to find anything.

the mounts i am proposing will accept readily available energy suspension universal poly bushings. the cost to replace them would be about 10 bucks per mount.

i am trying to gauge cost, interest, and possible sales price here.

i am looking to build a 6000 series billet mount that the bushings just slide into.

i am hoping to reuse all stock hardware as well but that may prove difficult. the trans mount will be no problem.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:24 pm 
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the polyurethane inserts for the engine mounts used to be available but i haven't seen them around for a long time, at least in north america.

i've had mxmikie pour up some 80 shore mounts for my blue turbo3 project and i've collected some mounts that were filled with window weld for my current project.

note that the rear and left side mounts are shared by all the manual suzuki variants from 89 up. the 3 bangers right side mounts are different from the g13 mounts. the automatics have a different type rear mount.

you also should realize that the solid poly rear mounts turn the firewall into a sounding board which makes the solid mounts loud as f#@&! they used to have solid aluminum rear mount inserts. i can only imagine how loud those were. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:54 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
the polyurethane inserts for the engine mounts used to be available but i haven't seen them around for a long time, at least in north america.

you recall a price?

i've had mxmikie pour up some 80 shore mounts for my blue turbo3 project and i've collected some mounts that were filled with window weld for my current project.

so you had the urethane poured in place or you have to press a bushing into a cleaned out stock mount? i have a set of the glass glue mounts drying out in the garage as we type. i did it 2 weekends ago and they are still mushy. that stuff isnt designed to dry 2 inches thick.

note that the rear and left side mounts are shared by all the manual suzuki variants from 89 up. the 3 bangers right side mounts are different from the g13 mounts. the automatics have a different type rear mount.

so there are 5 different mounts to manufacture correct? and that would cover all years/engines/trannys? do you have
any spare auto trans mounts or 4 banger mounts you can loan out for r&d?

you also should realize that the solid poly rear mounts turn the firewall into a sounding board which makes the solid mounts loud as f#@&! they used to have solid aluminum rear mount inserts. i can only imagine how loud those were. :wink:


so would you recommend most people leave the one stock mount in the rear then? at least for street use?

i personally dont care about road noise in this car...as my uncle in ft smith would say "it aint no lexus"

i am looking to keep the engine and trans from flopping around as best as possible without solid mounting the damn thing.

i will however, offer solid aluminum mounts as well. it will be easy to not cut the bushing hole in the middle....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:46 pm 
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i'm running the solid 80 shore rear mount on my blue turbo3 vert and it's a street car, not a daily driver but not a full on race car, either.

i used the stock left hand (transmission end) engine mount box stock after considering the deal and i'm glad that i did. with 80 shore polyurethane solids on the rear and right side mounts i had to use the pry bar from god to get the bolts through the solid mounts with the stretch of the stock engine mount providing the wiggle room.

i'm preparing my red vert to accept a twincam power unit and i'll use the slightly less rigid window weld filled mounts on the rear and right mounts and use a new oem replacment on the left side as i did on the blue vert. i'm building a cruiser this time and i want it to have some civility for street driving. i'm not doing anything really serious to the engine, cultus header, lightened flywheel, induction set, and a chipped ecu, just because i want the ease of a proper fast idle and an engine that doesn't seem to think that it has to run at 6000 rpm all the time. :-P softer engine mounts might not be a bad thing of that car.

have you considered using 40 or 60 shore hardness polyurethane solid bushings in the engine mounts? maybe you could just put together the jig and offer the range of bushing compliance as a custom order. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:55 pm 
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dethbrd wrote:
the mounts i am proposing will accept readily available energy suspension universal poly bushings. the cost to replace them would be about 10 bucks per mount. .

Like these??

image_id: 21809

image_id: 21812

image_id: 21832

=)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:44 pm 
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1987TurboSprint wrote:
dethbrd wrote:
the mounts i am proposing will accept readily available energy suspension universal poly bushings. the cost to replace them would be about 10 bucks per mount. .

Like these??

image_id: 21809

image_id: 21812

image_id: 21832

=)

uh....sort of, but without the welding and fabrication. alot of people dont have a welder nor the skills to burn that stuff on there. mine are going to be cnc aluminum holders for that style of "readliy available" bushing you have there

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:47 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
i'm running the solid 80 shore rear mount on my blue turbo3 vert and it's a street car, not a daily driver but not a full on race car, either.

i used the stock left hand (transmission end) engine mount box stock after considering the deal and i'm glad that i did. with 80 shore polyurethane solids on the rear and right side mounts i had to use the pry bar from god to get the bolts through the solid mounts with the stretch of the stock engine mount providing the wiggle room.

i'm preparing my red vert to accept a twincam power unit and i'll use the slightly less rigid window weld filled mounts on the rear and right mounts and use a new oem replacment on the left side as i did on the blue vert. i'm building a cruiser this time and i want it to have some civility for street driving. i'm not doing anything really serious to the engine, cultus header, lightened flywheel, induction set, and a chipped ecu, just because i want the ease of a proper fast idle and an engine that doesn't seem to think that it has to run at 6000 rpm all the time. :-P softer engine mounts might not be a bad thing of that car.

have you considered using 40 or 60 shore hardness polyurethane solid bushings in the engine mounts? maybe you could just put together the jig and offer the range of bushing compliance as a custom order. :wink:


this is what i wanted to talk about in my pm i sent you

where does the poly bush need to be in the mount to be easliy installed? the stock mounts are mixed...some centered and some not....they have a certain sag engineered into them. are your new poly mounts centered? or offset like stock mounts?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:20 am 
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If you were to make the pulley's for the MK1 style belt I'd like a set and have seen interest from others. For some racing classes we are not allowed to upgrade to the MK2 style but would still like to save some weight.

Like these but for MK1 - http://redlinegti.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... c9043a468a


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:11 pm 
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kreindl wrote:
If you were to make the pulley's for the MK1 style belt I'd like a set and have seen interest from others. For some racing classes we are not allowed to upgrade to the MK2 style but would still like to save some weight.

Like these but for MK1 - http://redlinegti.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... c9043a468a

what is the difference between mk1 and mkII styles?

i have 2 different diameter 5 hole pulleys at home right now. not sure why they are different. is this the mkII change?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:16 am 
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Mk1's use v belts, completely different pulleys.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:59 pm 
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kreindl wrote:
If you were to make the pulley's for the MK1 style belt I'd like a set and have seen interest from others. For some racing classes we are not allowed to upgrade to the MK2 style but would still like to save some weight.

Like these but for MK1 - http://redlinegti.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... c9043a468a


in order for me to make the v-belt pulleys, i would need someone to send me a set of extra pulleys to copy..... :wink:

and we would need to discuss prices and options for the pulleys....water pump, alternator, and crankshaft? under drive or std., with or without a/c.... power steering pulleys? i have never owned one of these cars with power steering but i know there are lots of them out there.

feedback goes here:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:19 am 
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I have an extremely rusty gti flywheel you can have if you cover shipping.

I figure you'd want a core to mess with before you started cutting into the real deal stuff.

Shipping would be ugly but that would be your only cost.

Let me know if you're interested.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:49 am 
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TGstring wrote:
I have an extremely rusty gti flywheel you can have if you cover shipping.

I figure you'd want a core to mess with before you started cutting into the real deal stuff.

Shipping would be ugly but that would be your only cost.

Let me know if you're interested.


where are you located? im interested. can you send me some pics of how bad it is?

everyone talks about how bad it is to ship these flywheels... its really not bad at all. they fit into a medium flat rate usps box no problem, large box if you want to extremely overpack it. the large box is less than 17 usd to send, the medium, less than 12 usd.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:43 pm 
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dethbrd wrote:
TGstring wrote:
I have an extremely rusty gti flywheel you can have if you cover shipping.

I figure you'd want a core to mess with before you started cutting into the real deal stuff.

Shipping would be ugly but that would be your only cost.

Let me know if you're interested.


where are you located? im interested. can you send me some pics of how bad it is?

everyone talks about how bad it is to ship these flywheels... its really not bad at all. they fit into a medium flat rate usps box no problem, large box if you want to extremely overpack it. the large box is less than 17 usd to send, the medium, less than 12 usd.



3 things:

I live in an igloo, in Canadia

it's rusty.. trust me.

shipping will cost 2x what you think it will.

but, it's free... and free is better than a kick in the nuts when push comes to shove :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:23 am 
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machining the 3 cyl flywheel down enough to lighten it or fit a racing clutch is out. the cut in the backside coupled with the tapered hole in the front for the springs makes the flywheel to thin to use once its cut down without fear of warpage or breakage. thats one idea off my list.

i am almost finished with my adjustable short shifter proto-type. should be a week or 2 and then i will put it in the car for testing and abuse. the first one is made from solid 6061 aluminum barstock. i am not completely confident that it wont bend. if it isnt strong enough, i will switch the 6061 out for 7075.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:45 am 
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as everyone else but me probably figured up front....... its taking much longer than i had hoped to get started on this stuff. my cnc guy has all but disappeared on me before we really even got past some drawings. add to that the whole life thing and its a few months later and i havent really made any progress.

i did get the shifter designed, and installed. it works great, is very smooth, slop-free, and easily adjusted without taking the whole sandwhich apart. i wanted to test it for a good while before i posted anything so i dont have any pics yet. i have had to adjust the dimensions, and make a few changes, and i have decided it works more than good enough to start selling them if anyone is interested. i am going to take it apart this weekend, clean it up, take lots of pics, and write up a shifter thread in the parts for sale section.

i am going to begin working on strut tops next as i can design and build these without a cnc machine. i am going to get started this weekend, so hopefully it wont be a few months before i get a set on my car for testing. if it is, my wife will just be able to enjoy the nice quiet ride it has now for a little longer........lol

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