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 Post subject: All swift gear ratios
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:08 pm 
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Regards


As I had disasamblaged and repared many gearboxes here is info of all gearboxes:

Swift 1.3 GS MK2,MK3(to somewhere middle '95)
The fastest gearbox-recommended for long high-way cruise-(parts interchangable with GTi)

1st 12 x 41 (3,416)
2nd 19 x 36 (1,894)
3rd 25 x 32 (1,280)
4th 35 x 32 (0,914)
5th 33 x 25 (0,757)
Rev 11 x 29 x 36 (3,272)

Final ratio 21 x 74 (3,523:1)



Swift 1.3 GTi MK2,MK3

1st 12 x 41 (3,416)
2nd 19 x 36 (1,894)
3rd 24 x 33 (1,375)
4th 33 x 34 (1,030)
5th 31 x 27 (0,870)
Rev 11 x 29 x 36 (3,272)

Final ratio 19 x 78 (4,105:1)


Swift 1.0 GA,SDX(cabrio) has the same speed gear ratio as GS except final ratio whitch is at 1.0l 18 x 79 (4,39:1).
If you want to increase acceleration at GTi gearbox put instead original final ratio (19 x 78 ) and put from 1.0l final ratio (18 x 79).The GTi will now have better acceleration but you will decrease the speed.That means that you will in every speed with same RPM go slower but in the same time you will have in every speed better acceleration and then more power,it is a compromise.


Final ratio survey:

21 x 74 (3,523:1)---1,3l SOHC MK2,MK3(to somewhere middle '95)-GS,sedan
19 x 72 (3,789:1)---
20 x 77 (3,85:1)-----XFi Geometro
19 x 75 (3,947:1)----1,3l SOHC MK3(from somewhere middle '95),MK4
?? x 68 (?,???:1)-----??
19 x 78 (4,105:1)---GT,GTi
18 x 79 (4,39:1)----- 1,0l GA,SDX(convert)

speedometer ratio (faster) 18 x 16(brown) for wheels 14" (GT,GTi)
speedometer ratio (slow) 18 x 17(white)for wheels 13" (GA,GL,GLX,GS)
speedometer ratio (slower)?? x ?? (yellow/beige) for wheels 12"

The speedometer drive plastic gear with 18 teeth is the same on all(fixed on diff.).The differents are only on speedometer driven plastic gear (smaller on which is cord) 16 teeth for 14"wheels and 17 teeth for 13" wheels.If you put on car 14" wheels you must have speedometer driven gear with 16 teeth so the cord can spin faster for speedometer because with bigger wheels for one turn car cross larger way.

If anybody know some other ratios then this let us know.
My question is does it exist something faster with lower ratio then 3,52 (21 x 74) somewhere 3,2 or lower?
And does Swift MK1 has the same ratio because I'm looking also faster fifth speed?


Swift 1,6l sedan 2WD,(parts interchangable with 4WD)

1st 12 x 39 (3,250)
2nd 22 x 39 (1,772)
3rd 30 x 37 (1,233)
4th 34 x 31 (0,911)
5th 39 x 30 (0,769)
Rev 12 x 25 x 39 (3,250)

Final ratio 18 x 67 (3,722)-early or 18 x 71 (3,944)-later


Swift 1,6l sedan 4WD

1st 12 x 39 (3,250)
2nd 22 x 39 (1,772)
3rd 30 x 37 (1,233)
4th 34 x 31 (0,911)
5th 39 x 30 (0,769)
Rev 12 x 25 x 39 (3,250)

Front final ratio 18 x 71 (3,944) or ?? x ?? (4,235)
Rear final ratio 12 x 41 (3,416)


Swift 1,3l 4WD (3,4,5 door (except sedan 1,6l )),Suzuki Baleno 1,6l 4WD -(parts interchangable with sedan 1,6l 2WD and 4WD gearbox)

1st 11 x 39 (3,545)
2nd 21 x 40 (1,904)
3rd 29 x 38 (1,310)
4th 33 x 32 (0,969)
5th 38 x 31 (0,815)
Rev 12 x 25 x 39 (3,250)

Front final ratio 18 x 71 (3,944) or ?? x ?? (4,235) (GTi 4WD 4,437)
Rear final ratio 12 x 41 (3,416)

GTi 4WD has also the same ratio except front final ratio which is (4,437)

Transmission gears for RWD: begins from gearbox [cone(41 x 13) x cylindric(37 x 34)] -> propeller shaft -> rear bridge[ viscous coupling -> rear final drive; cone(12 x 41)]

It is the same RWD gearing on all AWD swifts.There is some difference as on propeller shaft is on sedan 10cm longer and on rear stabilizer bar there is lever mounted for rear brakes compensator valve regulator.


Last edited by Comrade on Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:36 am, edited 23 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:36 pm 
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There are already 2 threads summarizing gear ratios according to model and market.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:29 pm 
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Where?!
Link please.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:22 am 
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Comrade wrote:
Where?!
Link please.

Well these few threads only took a minute to find
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=28540&highlight=gear+ratios+gti
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=14845&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gear+ratios+gti&start=50

Thanks for taking the time to post your info as a stickie is probably a good idea for noobs, most of your info is correct.
Once we get the info correct we can get a mod to stickie it.

There are only 2 gearsets produced by Suzuki for 1.3 fwd swifts.
3.4/1.894/1.280/0.914/0.757 and 3.4/1.894/1.375/1.030/0.870

Most swifts use the first gearset including most North American gti's.
RHD drive market Gti's and Euro Gti's have the closer ratio gearset.

All Gti's regardless of gearset use a 4.1 final drive and stronger diff.


Yes the mk1's have the same ratio's as mk2/3 even though they are completely different.

Suzukird have lots more ratio's listed if you have more money than sense :lol:


Last edited by Dattman on Sat May 05, 2012 6:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:03 pm 
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okay, I've read those threads, but they dont answer a question I've had for quite sometime...

I've got a swift GTI with a 4.3 final drive.
My class does not allow custom gear ratio's....

I would like to find the more common (and cheaper) GS (SOHC) tranny, replace 3rd,4th and 5th gears with GTI gears, then put a 4.9 Suzukird final drive in...
This would give me, essentially, a GTI box with a 4.9 final....

I know the GS box has a weaker final drive..right? So replacing it would fix this...

Are the gear ratios interchangeable?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:14 am 
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:huh:

What are you talking bout?

You have a gti with 4.38 (usually refered to as 4.4)
So you have a gti box? If you are in the states then it's likely you will have exactly the same GEARSET as a GS box, the 3 differences between your gti box and a GS box are

1, your gearbox casing has an extra lug on it.
2, your diff is stronger.
3 your countershaft and pinion gear is a different ratio.

Everything else is the same, same gears, same syncro's, same same same!

The best gearbox you can build using standard parts is a jap/aus/nz/euro gti gearset and a 4.4 crownwheel and countershaft.
Read those numbers I posted before, you want the latter set, it has a slightly closer 3,4,5.

If you are allowed to use a different final drive then use a 4.7, not much point going any lower.


Last edited by Dattman on Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:11 am 
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Okay,
I guess the GS box (yes, I'm in the U.S.), will not work because of the weaker diff...I road race the car and it see's some pretty tough conditions.

Or, will the weaker diff of a GS box be okay if it is welded? I run a welded diff on my car, so maybe this would cure the "weaker diff" issue?

If the ratios are the same...and everything else is pretty much the same...then it is only the diff that may cause me problems...

I am going to run a 4.9, the lowest gearing I can find, as that is what will be best for road racing.
I run a 4.4 with a GTI box now, and I never use 5th gear....ever...not even on the big nascar tracks like Lowes Motorspeedway.

I have spoken with a few guys who either race the swifts now, or have in the past, and the consensus is that the biggest problem with road racing these cars is the gearing. It is too far from 3rd to 4th gears...and fifth is not usable.

Now, I need to check and see if the jap/aus/euro box's are legal in my class. If they are, then I may just try and source one of those...as this would cure the 3rd to 4th problems.
I imagine they are expensive, and shipping from those countries would also be pretty high...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:07 pm 
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SCCA wrote:
Now, I need to check and see if the jap/aus/euro box's are legal in my class.


Matt, as long as you are still in improved touring, there is only one legal transmission, and thats the gti box. You can change the final drive, but thats it. You cannot use oversea's gearbox's, nor can you use domestic market GS transmissions.

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I rarely visit TeamSwift anymore, so please email me if you have a question. On average I'm only checking my PM's here once a month. "roy (at) forcefed4 (dot) com"


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:25 pm 
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Ah, okay...that answers my question.
I know there is backdating and updating within the model type...but wasnt sure about this situation with the tranny.

I will try and find another GTI box and put a 4.9 in it.

This will be a pretty big improvement over my 4.4...

Did a search online for junkyards in the U.S....and came up empty on GTI boxes...

Ya know,
I have lots of room for improvement with my car...I still have the stock chip in it (Sandros chip is on it's way....), my car is 130 lbs overweight (what is it...15lbs=1 hp?), heck...I dont even have a pro motor in it, not to mention I'm still running toyo's instead of hoosiers...

I'm getting pretty excited, as the car is starting to show some speed, with so much more left to develop on the car...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:01 pm 
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Roy Dean wrote:
SCCA wrote:
Now, I need to check and see if the jap/aus/euro box's are legal in my class.


Matt, as long as you are still in improved touring, there is only one legal transmission, and thats the gti box. You can change the final drive, but thats it. You cannot use oversea's gearbox's, nor can you use domestic market GS transmissions.


just a note for you guys to keep in mind:

don't pay any premiums for a "GTi" box if you're in the USA-
my '89 GTi although equipped with a 4.11 has the exact 3-4-5 ratios as any other swift. The us spec GTis didn't come with the closer 3-4-5 found in the rest of the world.

I'm also pretty sure this is accurate for '90 as well, but I can't say for certain after that.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:21 am 
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For SCCA the only advantage of using a gti box is the stronger diff, I'm not sure if a standard 2 spider diff will hold together for very long when it's welded up.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:27 am 
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Thanks Dattman for all the info...
I guess since even the GS tranny isnt legal in my class, that I am stuck with the GT box...
Luckily, mine isnt making any noises and will hopefully hold up till the end of the season, at which point I'll find another box and put a 4.9 in it :P

Which should make the car pull even harder in every gear (and make the competition weep 8) )

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:45 am 
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The gti diff (at least in the US), is NOT a 4 spider diff. It's a standard 2 spider gear diff (but is slightly beefier than the non-gti diffs).

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I rarely visit TeamSwift anymore, so please email me if you have a question. On average I'm only checking my PM's here once a month. "roy (at) forcefed4 (dot) com"


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:40 pm 
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Dattman wrote:
Comrade wrote:
Where?!
Link please.

Well these few threads only took a minute to find
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=28540&highlight=gear+ratios+gti
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=14845&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gear+ratios+gti&start=50

Thanks for taking the time to post your info as a stickie is probably a good idea for noobs, most of your info is correct.
Once we get the info correct we can get a mod to stickie it.

There are only 2 gearsets and 4 final drive ratios produced by Suzuki for fwd swifts.
3.4/1.894/1.280/0.914/0.757 and 3.4/1.894/1.375/1.030/0.870

Most swifts use the first gearset including most North American gti's.
RHD drive market Gti's and Euro Gti's have the closer ratio gearset.

All Gti's regardless of gearset use a 4.1 final drive and stronger diff.
There is no factory 3.7 ratio as far as I am aware.

Yes the mk1's have the same ratio's as mk2/3 even though they are completely different.

Suzukird have lots more ratio's listed if you have more money than sense :lol:


I read this threads and on stickie also but I see ratio numbers only and I am looking for exact number of teeth!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:25 pm 
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When speaking about gear ratio whole world has the same ratio,all of GTi and all of GS.The difference is only for market E10,for this market SOHC engine has the same speed ratio as GTi but it doesn't write which is final ratio.

If someone know which country of market coded E10 is it let us know.You can read the code market from the blue plate above the chassis number in the middle.On this blue or silver plate writes chassis,weight,colour code... and also one model code:HEJ534K21
This last two digits are description for the market code,that means E21

Market:
E21 Croatia (that's my)
E22 Germany
E39 Austria(not sure need to check)
E43 some arabic country...
E12,E30,E35 are right hand steering for market as England,Australia,Japan,India...
E27 could be Canada or USA perhaps?

what's your code guys ? :?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:41 am 
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Roy Dean wrote:
The gti diff (at least in the US), is NOT a 4 spider diff. It's a standard 2 spider gear diff (but is slightly beefier than the non-gti diffs).


Yes you are correct, brain fade :razz: edited for accuracy.

Since you run a locked diff do you think a standard Non gti diff will survive being welded up? since I only have one gti box and several 3cyl 4.4 boxes I'm considering welding one up until I can afford a gripper.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:03 am 
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Comrade wrote:

I read this threads and on stickie also but I see ratio numbers only and I am looking for exact number of teeth!


Speedo drive
white gear =13" wheels
brown gear = 14" wheels
yellow/beige= 12" wheels

Diff
3.52 = 74/21 teeth
3.79 = 72/19
4.1 = 78/19
4.4 = 79/18


Last edited by Dattman on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:53 am 
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Dattman wrote:
Since you run a locked diff do you think a standard Non gti diff will survive being welded up?


I wouldn't try it, but the worst that can happen is it will break, right? Well, I guess if it breaks and a very unlucky time it could be much worse....

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2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS - Daily Driver
2004 Dodge Ram Pickup - Tow Vehicle
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2009 Cannondale Rize
I rarely visit TeamSwift anymore, so please email me if you have a question. On average I'm only checking my PM's here once a month. "roy (at) forcefed4 (dot) com"


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:34 pm 
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No,the 2nd speed is 19 x 36 (1,894).
Reverse,1st,2nd speed are the same on GTi and GS and all FWD included sedan 1,3 accept swift sedan 1,6 DOHC and of course AWD gearbox.

How much teeth has this driven speedometer gear yello/beige for 12" wheels and has the speedometer drive gear also 18 teeth.I don't remember that swift MK2,MK3,MK4 has 12" wheels only probably MK1.Does MK1 has the same gearbox as MK2 and are the parts and gears interchangable?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:18 pm 
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Does Suzukird sell a Crown Wheel n Pinion kits for the G16 gearbox as well???

This box by far has the best individual ratios(very little to no rpm drop off)...and the strenght of the box is incredible, only downside is it comes on only a 3.7:1 Diff??

G16 Gearbox
Gear Ratio, Speed and RPM Calculator

Gear set: Manually entered values
Gear 1 2 3 4 5 Final
Ratios: 3.250 1.772 1.233 0.911 0.769 3.700

RPM Limit: 6500
RPM @Peak Power: 5500
Tyre Size: 195/50 x 15
Tyre Diameter: 576.00 mm
Tyre Circumference: 1809.56 mm


Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @5500 RPM Km/h @6500 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 9.03 50 59
2 16.56 91 108
3 23.80 131 155
4 32.21 177 209
5 38.16 210 248

Km/h RPM (in Gears)
-------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5
-------------------------------------------------
10 1108 604 420 310 262
20 2215 1208 840 621 524
30 3323 1812 1261 931 786
40 4430 2415 1681 1242 1048
50 5538 3019 2101 1552 1310
60 3623 2521 1863 1572
70 4227 2941 2173 1834
80 4831 3361 2484 2096
90 5435 3782 2794 2359
100 6039 4202 3105 2621
110 4622 3415 2883
120 5042 3725 3145
130 5462 4036 3407
140 5883 4346 3669
150 6303 4657 3931
160 4967 4193
170 5278 4455
180 5588 4717
190 5899 4979
200 6209 5241
210 5503
220 5765
230 6027
240 6289

Gear Change RPM drop (change @5500) RPM drop (change @6500)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 -> 2 -2501 (to 2999) -2956 (to 3544)
2 -> 3 -1673 (to 3827) -1977 (to 4523)
3 -> 4 -1436 (to 4064) -1697 (to 4803)
4 -> 5 -857 (to 4643) -1013 (to 5487)


Gs Gearbox with 4.4 diff
Gear Ratio, Speed and RPM Calculator

Gear set: Manually entered values
Gear 1 2 3 4 5 Final
Ratios: 3.416 1.894 1.280 0.914 0.757 4.400

RPM Limit: 6500
RPM @Peak Power: 5500
Tyre Size: 195/50 x 15
Tyre Diameter: 576.00 mm
Tyre Circumference: 1809.56 mm


Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @5500 RPM Km/h @6500 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 7.22 40 47
2 13.03 72 85
3 19.28 106 125
4 27.00 148 175
5 32.60 179 212

Km/h RPM (in Gears)
-------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5
-------------------------------------------------
10 1384 768 519 370 307
20 2769 1535 1037 741 614
30 4153 2303 1556 1111 920
40 5537 3070 2075 1482 1227
50 3838 2594 1852 1534
60 4605 3112 2222 1841
70 5373 3631 2593 2147
80 6140 4150 2963 2454
90 4669 3334 2761
100 5187 3704 3068
110 5706 4074 3375
120 6225 4445 3681
130 4815 3988
140 5186 4295
150 5556 4602
160 5926 4908
170 6297 5215
180 5522
190 5829
200 6136
210 6442

Gear Change RPM drop (change @5500) RPM drop (change @6500)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 -> 2 -2451 (to 3049) -2896 (to 3604)
2 -> 3 -1783 (to 3717) -2107 (to 4393)
3 -> 4 -1573 (to 3927) -1859 (to 4641)
4 -> 5 -945 (to 4555) -1117 (to 5383)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:49 pm 
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Dattman,
If the car is going to see any street duty, I wouldnt recommend welding the diff.
I wouldnt recommend welding if you autocross either...

The welded diff. only makes sense above about 30mph.

It will also take some time to learn, as it completely transforms the car and how you drive it.

Driving the car in a parking lot, or in your driveway, is very difficult (I cannot over emphasize this one...)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:44 am 
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There's no chance my car will ever be road legal, this is a purpose built car for circuit sprints and hillclimbs, it's very similar to Landers car but without the flares and expensive gearbox...

I have driven a locked diff in a fwd car before, I'm well aware of how awfull a locked diff is to drive, BUT if i think it might be faster around my track then I will consider trying it on one of my spare diff's, I still have the power steering equipment in storage in case I decide to run a locked diff ( i have skinney arms :( )

My question was whether a standard diff will withstand being welded up, as Roy mentioned the worse that can happen is it breaks, well to finish first, first you must finish and it really sucks to pay your entry fee and then breakdown on the first race of the day, it happened once in my Datsun, thats why the Datsun only gets driven on sunny sundays and I race Suzuki's now :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:36 pm 
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hi all,

just reading this thread, looking at changing my AUS gti gear/diff ratio setup

i have a AUS mk2 (1989) swift gti setup for pure circuit racing. I ran the strd AUS gti box, and have a welded diff. Running at EasternCreek in sydney, my lap times improved approx 2.5-3 secs a lap running the welded diff.

My engines are nearly strd, running approx 60-65 KWatw, and never had a problem in breaking diffs.

Im now looking at running 4.44 diff (posted a WTB on the AUS gti site) and to run 185x60x13 wheels, so in effect , run approx a 4.6-7 final ratio

Also looking at getting different gearset ratios to improve between gear gap


cheers
Peter


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:34 pm
Posts: 319
Location: orlando, fl
oh yeah, Welded transforms the car...but will always be faster then an open diff.
After moving to a welded, I honestly dont know how I ever raced with an open...

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"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague longing for something salty" - Peter Egan
89 Swift GTI raced in ITB with the SCCA.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:13 am
Posts: 46
Location: Croatia/Balkan-militarna zona
What final ratio has sedan 1,3l and what 1,6l?


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