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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Posts: 5
disrespected3cyl,

I'm kinda new at this game, but if you put in a 3.523:1 on a 1.0L with XFI cam & advanced cam sprocket, then you need a smaller speedo gear to increase the speed to be more acurate.

If you are spending all that cash for economy, (just like I am) then go with 175/65R14 tires for further overdive effect. At least go with the 155/80R13 tires if nothing else. Don't go with the 12" tires as in my opinion as you are defeating spending that cash for the other overdrive goodies.

Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck to you.

P.S. I just found a 3.52:1 YEAH!

Cowspots


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:46 pm 
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Posts: 263
Location: PA
Cowspots-since i picked up the xfi 3.79 trans a couple yrs ago on a sale for $35 and i'm a tech-i won't be spending much ;)
To make it a 3.52, as stated, i'd have to run the 13" tires, but i'm going to go the 14's-same size you just suggested actually.
I just put new lifters in to fix the cold start problem and hopefully the feels-like-it's-loaded-up problem. I was only getting about 38mpg lately-with cold weather, plus doing a little more cty now-i was getting up to 48-50. I'll see how it goes now that the car is running a bit smoother and the weather is turning around.
As for those 14's; i'm looking at 86-89 mazda 323 rims or 78-81 supra rims. I can also get a set of stanza rims.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:49 am 
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Comrade wrote:
If you want more grip (traction) than don't buy GS gearbox because on GS gearbox speed ratio is to long between speeds and you will have huge RPM dip.Gearbox GS ratio is made for dayli drivers and long highway travle.Speed Gear ratio on GTi are the closest of all gearbox.
If you want better grip (traction) then open the gearbox and put the highest final ratio 4,39 (18x79) from model 1,0l 3 cylinder.

I would like to shorten my ratios(final ratio) this way, by putting in the 1.0 final ratio.
But has anybody done this and is it doable?Is it all interchangeable and what modifications would I also need to make?
Let's say I have a whole GTI stock MK2 box and all of the inside stuff from a 1.0 box. What else would I need to do?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:35 pm 
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I suggest you spend some more time reading as this has been covered plenty of times before, you will need to strip both countershafts and put the gti 3rd and 4th gears onto the 4.38 countershaft and swap the crownwheels over.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:20 pm 
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Thanks, I see you guys made a lot of calculations and options-thanks for that!
I read this great topic viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31858&hilit=+final+ratio+into+gti and although many things are clear, I got confused when I read one of your posts-you mention a 4.7 final drive with standard gti parts. So when the budget is as tight as mine you can't really look at an optimal close ratio box, not even a custom made 1st, 2nd and 3rd, only a shorter final drive. So where could one find a 4.7 or(you also mention) 4.9 FD? Mind you, I can get custom built FD for 230 euros which tops at around 180-190 kph, so if it's something complicated/expensive, it's just not worth it. After calculating the speeds the 4.39 doesn't do it for me since I am rallying, still waaaay too long.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
As mentioned earlier in this thread, the only factory diff options are 3.52/3.79/4.1 and 4.38 anything else is custom made.
If you do get a custom made countershaft and crownwheel then I would suggest getting them cut with straight cut teeth as firstly it is cheaper and secondly puts a lot less stress on the case as the helical gears try to force the counter shaft out the end of the casing.

Remember that lowering the final drive ratio will increase acceleration IN each gear but will not reduce the huge gap between gears, trust me you will get very frustrated with the big gaps between 1st 2nd and 3rd when rallying :x


Last edited by Dattman on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:24 am 
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Location: Palmyra,VA
Been searching, but can't find any info about automatic final drive ratios. Trying to find out if different final drive gears were used in the 3 and 4 cyl or in the different bodystyles.

Edit: Think I found it. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=23748&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=automatic+final+drive


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:10 am 
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Location: Belgrade , Serbia
Comrade wrote:
Swift 1.3 GTi MK2,MK3

1st 12 x 41 (3,416)
2nd 19 x 36 (1,894)
3rd 24 x 33 (1,375)
4th 33 x 34 (1,030)
5th 31 x 27 (0,870)
Rev 11 x 29 x 36 (3,272)

Final ratio 19 x 78 (4,105:1)


Swift 1.0 GA,SDX(cabrio) has the same speed gear ratio as GS except final ratio whitch is at 1.0l 18 x 79 (4,39:1).
If you want to increase acceleration at GTi gearbox put instead original final ratio (19 x 78 ) and put from 1.0l final ratio (18 x 79).The GTi will now have better acceleration but you will decrease the speed.That means that you will in every speed with same RPM go slower but in the same time you will have in every speed better acceleration and then more power,it is a compromise.




Hi people , I know this is an old topic , but I have a question. I have a GTi mk3 and second gear is making me crazy , it's too long. Did the final ratio of swift 1.0l make things a lettle bit better , will the gearbox be shorter? If this is a solution I will find a gearbox of 1.0l and put final radio in GTi gearbox. This is posible , or not? If I made mistake , my english is not so very god , and I'm sorry , I'm hope you understand me :D
Cheers :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 11:11 am 
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I made an excel sheet and put in tire sizes and the ratios mentioned in the start post and my findings are that there's something wrong :? . A (european) 1.0 has a final ratio of 4.1. With the 4.39 it hardly reaches 135kph, the 4.1 gives a top speed of just under 145, according to factory specs. The Gti turns out to have the 4.39 final drive.

_________________
'95 Swift 1.0:

- 0,5mm oversized pistons
- mildly ported head, 1,7mm taken off
- ss exhaust valves
- 222/365 3tech cam
- +10 gear
- K&N air filter
- TBI bridge removed
- 40mm throttle and intake manifold
- srd underdrive pulley
- AASCO 3kg flywheel with GTi clutch
- GTi catback
- deleted cat, now 2" ss pipe
- 14x6J ET45 BSA Racing
- Nankang AS-1 165/55-14
- 35mm lower Apex front and rear springs
- GTi sway bar
- Turbinetech underbody brace
- Ultra Racing upper strut bar

0-100kph: unknown seconds


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:36 pm 
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You might need to check those calculations, all GTi's worldwide have a 4.1 FD, no exceptions, most mk2/3 1.0's have 4.1's until 95 when they were changed to a 4.389 FD, there is some some variance with change over dates between markets.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:24 pm 
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I checked them multiple times and compared them to my car and my friend's GTi and they match almost exactly. First two gears are the same in a GTi and a 1.0, only difference is the final drive and in the first two gears, a GTi does more rpms at the same speed so that's the one with the 4,39.

_________________
'95 Swift 1.0:

- 0,5mm oversized pistons
- mildly ported head, 1,7mm taken off
- ss exhaust valves
- 222/365 3tech cam
- +10 gear
- K&N air filter
- TBI bridge removed
- 40mm throttle and intake manifold
- srd underdrive pulley
- AASCO 3kg flywheel with GTi clutch
- GTi catback
- deleted cat, now 2" ss pipe
- 14x6J ET45 BSA Racing
- Nankang AS-1 165/55-14
- 35mm lower Apex front and rear springs
- GTi sway bar
- Turbinetech underbody brace
- Ultra Racing upper strut bar

0-100kph: unknown seconds


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:26 am 
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Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
:roll:

Of course the first two gears are the same, both have 3,416 and 1,894 1st and 2nd gears and both have a 4.1 FD, the gti has lower 3rd, 4th and 5th gears, pull both boxes apart and count the teeth and then tell me I'm wrong, if I am wrong then it's not a stock gti box.

Heres are some calcs, Gti top and your 1.0 with 4.1 at the bottom, like I said change over year is around 95 depending on market.


Attachments:
Calc.jpg
Calc.jpg [ 143.57 KIB | Viewed 2352 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:38 am 
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Location: Oss, the Netherlands
Dattman wrote:
:roll:

Of course the first two gears are the same, both have 3,416 and 1,894 1st and 2nd gears and both have a 4.1 FD,


Every GTi I've driven did more rpm's than both my 1.0's did at the same speeds in first two gears, which means that the GT has a shorter final.

edit: I counted the GTi gearbox today and it indeed has 19/78, or a 4.1 final. Then there's still the problem of the 1.0 making less rpms in first two gears. If they are the same and the final is also 4.1, speeds should match in first two gears, and they don't. I know for a fact that (european) 1.0's had the same gearbox from '89 to '03, they certainly never switched to 4.39. I'm confused :?

_________________
'95 Swift 1.0:

- 0,5mm oversized pistons
- mildly ported head, 1,7mm taken off
- ss exhaust valves
- 222/365 3tech cam
- +10 gear
- K&N air filter
- TBI bridge removed
- 40mm throttle and intake manifold
- srd underdrive pulley
- AASCO 3kg flywheel with GTi clutch
- GTi catback
- deleted cat, now 2" ss pipe
- 14x6J ET45 BSA Racing
- Nankang AS-1 165/55-14
- 35mm lower Apex front and rear springs
- GTi sway bar
- Turbinetech underbody brace
- Ultra Racing upper strut bar

0-100kph: unknown seconds


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:15 pm
Posts: 3
Location: utah
Ok so please allow me to introduce myself, my name is Clay and I run a 1996 Geo metro on the Bonneville Salt Flats, using a Arctic Cat 1000 CC 2-stroke snowmobile engine for power, still utilizing the metro transmission, currently the best speed we were able to obtain is 135 MPH.
However, at the top of 3rd gear at 8700 RPM its pulling really hard, shifting into 4th, it luggs really hard. it goes down to 6000 RPM, out of the power band for a two stroke.

In looking at your gear ratio's that you have listed, there are different gear ratios listed for different trans axles between 3rd and 4th gear. What do these numbers mean? Like 3rd gear says 33? What does that mean?

Questions here:

1: Is the outer dimensions the same or very similar on these trans axles as the Geo?

2: If I am not able to get to a junk yard, or to see the car in person, how will I know if its the trans axle I am needing or not? And, is there any way that I can test to see if its good or not?

3: What is a good price to pay for one of these?

TIA
Clay


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Welcome to Teamswift.

bvilleracer wrote:
1: Is the outer dimensions the same or very similar on these trans axles as the Geo?

-the outer dimensions and mounting points should be the same as the transmission you are using.
bvilleracer wrote:
2: If I am not able to get to a junk yard, or to see the car in person, how will I know if its the trans axle I am needing or not?

This technique should help you (or the person examining the trans axle) determine the gear set:
http://geometroforum.com/single/?p=439157&t=4187023
bvilleracer wrote:
3: And, is there any way that I can test to see if its good or not?

There is no 'special' test that these transmissions require. Use the same test method you would on any standard transmission.
bvilleracer wrote:
4: What is a good price to pay for one of these?

Junkyard prices and conditions vary widely.
You can search the For Sale section and see the range of prices a good 5 speed trans commands here on Teamswift. If it is for a specific purpose, sometimes a member will offer a transmission which they KNOW is correct for your application.

Is your 2 cycle engine modified?

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:13 am 
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Hi Clay

Unfortunately in the USA you only have one GEARSET available but it does have 4 different final drive ratio's available.
The rest of the world got a closer ratio gearset in the gti, 3rd 4th and 5th are closer together, for your application changing the final drive ratio is quite pointless as you would still have a 2700rpm drop between 3rd and 4th, the drag at 105mph might be slightly easier to overcome than at 115 which might result from going from a 4.1 to 4.4 but actually changing 4th gear to something lower and closer to 3rd would keep the engine in the power band.

Let me know your tyre size and I'll let you know what rpm drop and speed would be with different 4th gear.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:28 am 
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Posts: 3
Location: utah
Hi Dattman,

Thank you. Ok for the tire size I have two differnet tire size that I run. The 1st tire size is 15" X 22.5, and the others is 15" X 24.0.

Typically I run the smaller tires on the rear and taller ones on the front, basically for rotational mass.

Thanks for looking this up.
Clay


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:29 am 
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Location: utah
Also, going outside the US, can I get different gear ratios?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:06 am 
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Location: Dublin
hi all
just found this on wikipedia


In 1989, the gear ratios changed, front brakes and outer axle shafts were made larger, the rear differential was reinforced and front axle shafts were identical lengths.
The European Justy from 1994–2001, a rebadged second generation Suzuki Cultus, used a 1.3 SOHC 8V, G13BA Suzuki engine with a Suzuki 5 speed manual transmission and available 4WD.
The 1990 model was the last car sold in the United States with a carburetor; the following year the Justy had fuel injection. Some early 1992 USA models still had the carbureted engine.
[edit]Gear ratios
1987-1988
CVT:
FWD: 1st 3.071 2nd 1.695 3rd 1.137 4th .823 5th .675 Rev 3.461 Final 4.437
4WD: 1st 3.071 2nd 1.695 3rd 1.137 4th .771 5th .631 Rev 3.461 Final 5.200, Differential 3.700
1989-1994
CVT: 2.503-.497, Rev 2.475, Final 4.666, Differential 3.900
FWD: 1st 3.071 2nd 1.695 3rd 1.137 4th .794 5th .675 Rev 3.461 Final 4.800
4WD: 1st 3.071 2nd 1.695 3rd 1.137 4th .794 5th .675 Rev 3.461 Final 5.285, Differential 3.700
[edit]References


taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Justy

can someone confirm please?
looks different from the ones posted before

_________________
91 swift mk3 gti
91swift mk3 gti
94 audi s2 coupe
01 mk4 golf gti


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:18 am 
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Location: castlerock Wa,
looks off like it has a 4.800 final gear never heard of that.

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1990 swift GL Twincam swap
Hyundai trans swap- in progress


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:25 pm 
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That info is all wrong for our cars, there were several different model Justy's and only one was the swift and as stated only in Europe, that was right at the end of the mk3 life.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:29 pm 
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I was looking at this because I just saw a 99 subaru justy 3 door awd for sale
basically a mk3 swift 3 door awd.

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91 swift mk3 gti
91swift mk3 gti
94 audi s2 coupe
01 mk4 golf gti


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:38 am 
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Location: MALTA - EUROPE
Hi all,

So I have a Standard Gti box and soon I have to replace it with a close gear ratio one and upgrade the diff as well. 2 questions. Is the GS box itself exactly as the Gti one, so that I get one and build the new close ratio gearbox in it and leave the Gti box intact? Second question who sells good quality close ratio gearbox and good LSD? I saw suzukird. What do you think?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:38 am 
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Basically the same for a mk2/3, only one lug difference for the extra brace from box to block.
Attachment:
Jan19 010e.jpg
Jan19 010e.jpg [ 142.38 KIB | Viewed 1650 times ]


http://www.bacciromano.com/index.php?p= ... =70&mar=13

The suzukird ones are made in Argentina, only problem is the huge markup :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:26 am 
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Location: MALTA - EUROPE
But you know some good suppliers for close ratio gearboxes?

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