TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:46 pm

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
UPDATE: The problem was with the speedometer all along.
RPM's are fine.


I have a 91 metro vert. The clutch pedal is really soft. It requires almost no force to push it it in. (almost same force required as the accelerator pedal will push the clutch pedal all the way)

and rpms in 5th seem to be wrong. at 50mph I am going 3000 rpm..

what could be wrong? do I need a new clutch? I dont seem to notice any slipping or maybe I dont know what a slipping clutch even feels like. I'm a noob. :?

Thanks


Last edited by mpmetro on Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Has the clutch always 'felt' like that, or is it a recent development?

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
I wouldnt know, since I just bought this car. Its a 91 vert. In my other 91 vert, the clutch is firm. But on this one, it goes down with minimal force. The clutch pedal on this feels like the gas pedal. I dont know... is this normal ? or maybe the my other vert which I am comparing it to, has a clutch that is too firm?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
If you can kill the engine by letting out on the clutch quickly in first, and not giving it any gas, then probably you are fine.

A clutch may seem soft or hard, depending on its pressure plate, whether there is grease in the cable, and the spring which retracts your clutch arm inside the bell housing.

You can see that second spring in figure 53 Here:

Image

and if it's not hooked up right (v unusual) you would wear out your throw-out bearing quickly.

Another spring that should be here, but is either difficult to see or missing

Image

is not so critical.

On these pages are a complete posting of what a trans should look like:

http://www.teamswift.net/album_cat.php? ... &start=120

If your transmission has a different gear ratio than your other convertible, it would explain the 3000 rpm at 50 mph.

Someone could have put that trans in, was unhappy w it's gear ratio, and so unloaded it to you or the person you bought it from. Does it make any unusual noises that make you think the trans is going out? Again, if you can kill the engine by popping the clutch at idle, your clutch probably isn't slipping and doesn't need to be replaced.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
thanks for the info, Phil N Ed... I think it might just be the pressure plate which is making the clutch pedal feel so soft.

I did the test of letting the clutch go in first gear, and yes, the car jerked for a second and the engine shut off.

but I dont understand the mph/rpm thing. Both my cars are same 91 metro vert. I dont understand why transmission would be different. I try to find some kind of number or identification to make sure both are the same trans...

Would someone happen to the the normal rpms at around 55-60mph ?

In one vert, I have 58mph/3000rpm, and in the other vert I get 50mph/3000rpm. For the rest of the gears the rpm's/mph are the same, but only I notce that 5th is a little different.

thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Read the thread on 'gear ratios'. That might help.
Also check to see they have the same height tires.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 3566
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
Here's a quick and easy check to see if your clutch is slipping - it's easier if you have a tachometer.

Get the car onto a flat or slightly sloping road (uphill) and with it in fourth at perhaps 40 mph or so, floor the throttle and then depress & release the clutch - you should see the tach needle kickup and rapidly drop back - or hear the engine rpms do the same thing - pay attention to what happens when you release the clutch, if the rpms do not stabilize within a matter of seconds, the clutch is slipping, and the longer it takes to stabilize the worse the slip.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
fordem wrote:
Here's a quick and easy check to see if your clutch is slipping - it's easier if you have a tachometer.

Get the car onto a flat or slightly sloping road (uphill) and with it in fourth at perhaps 40 mph or so, floor the throttle and then depress & release the clutch - you should see the tach needle kickup and rapidly drop back - or hear the engine rpms do the same thing - pay attention to what happens when you release the clutch, if the rpms do not stabilize within a matter of seconds, the clutch is slipping, and the longer it takes to stabilize the worse the slip.


thanks.. I will try that, and post back results.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Took my GTi out tonight, and looked closely at the tach.
At 3000 RPMs in 5th gear, I am doing 54 mph.

Perhaps what you describe is normal. Maybe you simply have two similar cars with different gear ratios.

Hope this helps...

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
ok, the clutch is fine, and turns out that on my other vert that i though was normal, is actually too stiff.

and about the weird rpm, "bigbear1969" told me that my other vert may just have a transmission from a hatch in it. So I guess they were different gear ratios all along.

all this time I had a vert with a hatch transmission, and I thought it was a vert tranny and it was powerful, now that I have a vert with a vert tranny, I know what a real vert transmission power feels like. Its nice.
:D
I dont know about the mpg's though, I will find out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
Its weird.... But I think the different speeds were because there might be something wrong with my speedometer. I have noticed that even when I going the speed limit... I am always going faster than all the other cars.. And the needle of the speedometer also vibrates a little, and isnt smooth and soft looking like the one in my other car.

I guess I will have to use a gps to check the speed to make sure that my speedometer is working right or not... Could a speedometer ever go bad and show speed like off about 5 or 10 mph?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
ok I have confirmed that my speedometer does not work right. It shows me as going 7mph slower than I actually am. So I guess the whole transmission & mph vs rpm thing was fine all along... its just my speedometer is inacurate alot...

I know its not because of my tires because they are stock size.

how I checked the accuracy of my speedometer? I drove next to a honda civic hybrid with those digital speedometers, and drove the same speed, and looked over at thier dash to compare to my speed. When thiers showed 67mph, mine showed 60mph... :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 3566
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
And you ASSUMED that theirs was accurate.

Borrow a GPS from a friend and check yours - with stock wheels & tires there is no reason for it to be 11% off


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:43 pm 
Offline
Mama Said Knock You Out!
Mama Said Knock You Out!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2002 9:22 am
Posts: 5003
Location: MI
Your trans could have previously been changed also, don't forget to take that into consideration.

_________________
TGstring wrote:
sooooo clean it's duuuuurrty.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
fordem wrote:
And you ASSUMED that theirs was accurate.

Borrow a GPS from a friend and check yours - with stock wheels & tires there is no reason for it to be 11% off


I assumed because it was a new civic,,, but anyway I will borrow/buy a gps and check it and post results..

thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 3566
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
Phil N Ed wrote:

Another spring that should be here, but is either difficult to see or missing

Image

is not so critical.



I though I had done this before - and just realised I never did

There is no clutch related spring in this area - it's not that it's missing or difficult to see - there isn't supposed to be one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
fordem wrote:
Phil N Ed wrote:

Another spring that should be here, but is either difficult to see or missing

Image

is not so critical.



I though I had done this before - and just realised I never did

There is no clutch related spring in this area - it's not that it's missing or difficult to see - there isn't supposed to be one.




Gentlemen, gentlemen...we are talking about a non-critical spring!!!


The information that I gave the Texan was correct.


The reference for my original statement was from memory. (Thinking back to the times I've adjusted clutches here in the U.S.)

But for those of you with left hand drives, maybe this is how it might look...

Image

and for those of you with right hand drives:

Image

Apologies to those of you who are not supposed to have this spring. It is barely visible below the "1" in the drawings above.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 3566
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
I see the spring you refer to in those drawings - it's not on my car, never has been, and it's also not in my FSM - perhaps this varies from one year to another.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
I thank and excuse the gentleman from Guyana.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:23 am
Posts: 528
Location: aa
so I checked the speedo using my GPS and its about 6mph off. About 10% I think.. If I had different tire size, I would think the rpms would be affected also with speed, but they seem normal.

Here is a youtube video so you guys can see

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yvTUm6Zp-tQ


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group