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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:56 am
Posts: 14
Location: Newark, DE
I just changed my clutch and pressure plate in my 87 Sprint Turbo and now the clutch won't disengage. Is it possible that I got the wrong disc or pressure plate (or both) in the the kit that I bought? They looked similar to the ones I took off but unfortunately I threw away the old ones so I don't have anything to compare with. The flywheel is stock and I didn't mod or force the pp onto it and it went on easily. I used the included alignment tool to hold the disc in place while tightening the bolts on the pp. I tightened the pp bolts to the 18ft/lbs of torque stated in the Chilton's manual. I took it apart again and made sure that I didn't put the plate on the wrong way. I also made sure the arm and release bearing were moving and the spring returned the arm. I did notice that the fingers on the pp have moved so that they are no longer sticking out of the hole on the pp but are now slightly pointing inwards toward the disc and flywheel. I don't think there were any spacers between my old pp and the flywheel and the new kit didn't come with any.....

Am I on crack and miss something or should I go out and get another kit (this time not a no name one off of eBay).

The PP has to touch the flywheel when I tighten the bolts, correct? The only way to get the fingers on the PP to stick out is to only put the PP on part of the way, sort of letting it float in place, but this doesn't seem like a good thing to do, am I right in this assumption or is this where I screwed up?

Does anybody have any experience with any of these kits (or ones not mentioned):
Company Part number
LuK 04-139
Exedy/Daikin 04139
Valeo 51902202
Borg Warner 90181

I am already going bald and this is making me pull my hair out.......


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:46 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 1257
Location: So. Calif
barcade134 wrote:
I just changed my clutch and pressure plate in my 87 Sprint Turbo and now the clutch won't disengage. Is it possible that I got the wrong disc or pressure plate (or both) in the the kit that I bought? They looked similar to the ones I took off but unfortunately I threw away the old ones so I don't have anything to compare with. The flywheel is stock and I didn't mod or force the pp onto it and it went on easily. I used the included alignment tool to hold the disc in place while tightening the bolts on the pp. I tightened the pp bolts to the 18ft/lbs of torque stated in the Chilton's manual. I took it apart again and made sure that I didn't put the plate on the wrong way. I also made sure the arm and release bearing were moving and the spring returned the arm. I did notice that the fingers on the pp have moved so that they are no longer sticking out of the hole on the pp but are now slightly pointing inwards toward the disc and flywheel. I don't think there were any spacers between my old pp and the flywheel and the new kit didn't come with any.....

Am I on crack and miss something or should I go out and get another kit (this time not a no name one off of eBay).

The PP has to touch the flywheel when I tighten the bolts, correct? The only way to get the fingers on the PP to stick out is to only put the PP on part of the way, sort of letting it float in place, but this doesn't seem like a good thing to do, am I right in this assumption or is this where I screwed up?

Does anybody have any experience with any of these kits (or ones not mentioned):
Company Part number
LuK 04-139
Exedy/Daikin 04139
Valeo 51902202
Borg Warner 90181

I am already going bald and this is making me pull my hair out.......


This post sounds very familiar. I think someone else had the same problem.

Do you have pictures of your install?

The PP fingers are supposed to move inwards since the clutch disc is compressing the diaphragm spring. Usually when you're done the fingers are flat, but I suppose they could be inward a bit but after they go flat you're not gaining any more clamping force.

Yes, the frame of the PP is in contact with the flywheel.

Any chance you installed the disc backwards?

lastly, how does the clutch pedal feel? Does it feel like it works but the engine does not disengage from the transmission?

_________________
1992 Geo metro, 1.0L 5spd, 511,000miles on original engine & trans
- First time engine work at 456K miles, bad headgasket. Rebuilt head, Felpro gasket installed.
- knuckles/hubs/brakes/13" wheels from a 2000 Metro, running 175 70R13
- New bearings and 1st/2nd synchros at 440.5K miles.
- MPGuino
- Averaging ~ 51MPG these days


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:56 am
Posts: 14
Location: Newark, DE
JellyBeanDriver wrote:
This post sounds very familiar. I think someone else had the same problem.

Do you have pictures of your install?

The PP fingers are supposed to move inwards since the clutch disc is compressing the diaphragm spring. Usually when you're done the fingers are flat, but I suppose they could be inward a bit but after they go flat you're not gaining any more clamping force.

Yes, the frame of the PP is in contact with the flywheel.

Any chance you installed the disc backwards?

lastly, how does the clutch pedal feel? Does it feel like it works but the engine does not disengage from the transmission?


I tried searching for a previous solution in the forums but came up empty handed. Could you give me some hints on what I should search for. I have tried keywords like clutch, engaged, disengage.

There was a sticker on the disc that said "this side flywheel" or something along those lines. I read a post here some where that the FLat side is the FLywheel side and the rough side goes toward the PP (or something like that). I will have to check and make sure that the sticker wasn't placed incorrectly.

The pedal is moving the arm but there isn't any resistance. I can even move the arm by hand. I don't think the release bearing is touching the fingers and by the time it does touch it is already extended to the max.

Here are some pictures I can take more just let me know what you want to see.

Image

Image

Image

Thank you for your help.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:55 pm
Posts: 1257
Location: So. Calif
Don't bother looking for that other post. He ended up just saying he was going to buy another clutch set - that the first one was too stiff and that was the problem.

Looks like an Exedy pressure plate. Can't tell for sure if your clutch disc is installed correctly but see this picture.
http://www.auto-zodiac.com/images/CLUTC ... -K0346.jpg

The side facing you points to the transmission, and yes the other side is reasonably flat and goes towards the flywheel.

Are your clutch cover bolts tight in the picture? If so those fingers don't look too flat compared to your description.

I see you've taken the cable release lever off. Any chance you just don't have it put back on correctly and the bearing is too far back?

I can't remember if the splines have 1 spline missing to key the arm to the shaft.

Dave

_________________
1992 Geo metro, 1.0L 5spd, 511,000miles on original engine & trans
- First time engine work at 456K miles, bad headgasket. Rebuilt head, Felpro gasket installed.
- knuckles/hubs/brakes/13" wheels from a 2000 Metro, running 175 70R13
- New bearings and 1st/2nd synchros at 440.5K miles.
- MPGuino
- Averaging ~ 51MPG these days


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:40 am 
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The Smuggler
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:34 am
Posts: 2885
Location: Surrey, BC CANADA
JellyBeanDriver wrote:
Don't bother looking for that other post. He ended up just saying he was going to buy another clutch set - that the first one was too stiff and that was the problem.

Looks like an Exedy pressure plate. Can't tell for sure if your clutch disc is installed correctly but see this picture.
http://www.auto-zodiac.com/images/CLUTC ... -K0346.jpg

The side facing you points to the transmission, and yes the other side is reasonably flat and goes towards the flywheel.

Are your clutch cover bolts tight in the picture? If so those fingers don't look too flat compared to your description.

I see you've taken the cable release lever off. Any chance you just don't have it put back on correctly and the bearing is too far back?

I can't remember if the splines have 1 spline missing to key the arm to the shaft.

Dave

I have ACT clutches in both my GTi's, and have no problem with too heavy a pressure plate altho they are much heavier feel than a stocker.
On the cable release leaver there is no reason to remove it, it is possible the bearing position is wrong also the cable adjustment is not properly set.
Also the fingers on the PP will flatten out when its bolted down, the pic looks normal to me.

Also the clutch you bought is the diameter 7.5"
Turbo cars are the larger diameter and the flywheel is Flat, non turbo flywheels are stepped.
and I am not sure if the smaller clutch will work with the turbo flywheel
or visa versa is your flywheel the flat one?

_________________
"I love the whine of a turbo in the mornin" 1991 Sprint Turbo
"I also love the 7500 rpm scream of a DOHC" :razz: 2X 1989 Swift GTi's a 92 and Jr's new 93 GT

Keep your eye on the boost guage!
And I love this one!
"Dale Jarrett's crew chief" "Drive it like ya STOLE IT!"
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:56 am
Posts: 14
Location: Newark, DE
JellyBeanDriver wrote:
Are your clutch cover bolts tight in the picture? If so those fingers don't look too flat compared to your description.

Yes the bolts are tight in the picture.

JellyBeanDriver wrote:
I see you've taken the cable release lever off. Any chance you just don't have it put back on correctly and the bearing is too far back?

This is definitely a possibility. I will have to find out how to put it back on correctly.

Knuckles wrote:
Also the clutch you bought is the diameter 7.5"
Turbo cars are the larger diameter and the flywheel is Flat, non turbo flywheels are stepped.
and I am not sure if the smaller clutch will work with the turbo flywheel
or visa versa is your flywheel the flat one?

My flywheel is the flat one and I found out the hard way that the 7.5" disc and pp will NOT work with the non turbo flywheel (6 5/16"). It might work the other way around but I didn't have too much trouble finding the 7.5" disc and pp set. I have bought three flywheels all stating that they were for the Turbo but in all three cases I was sent the stepped flywheel. I finally gave up trying to get a new flywheel and now I am stuck with one (luckily I was able to return the other two).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:31 pm
Posts: 2457
Location: New York State
barcade134 wrote:
JellyBeanDriver wrote:
I see you've taken the cable release lever off. Any chance you just don't have it put back on correctly and the bearing is too far back?

This is definitely a possibility. I will have to find out how to put it back on correctly.

There should be "punch marks" to align on both the shaft and the arm.

_________________
1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
1989 Swift GTi - Parts car
1998 Metro - Parts car


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:56 am
Posts: 14
Location: Newark, DE
Gasoline Fumes wrote:
barcade134 wrote:
JellyBeanDriver wrote:
I see you've taken the cable release lever off. Any chance you just don't have it put back on correctly and the bearing is too far back?

This is definitely a possibility. I will have to find out how to put it back on correctly.

There should be "punch marks" to align on both the shaft and the arm.


Thank you everyone for your help. That was the problem.


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