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 Post subject: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:43 am 
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Location: Barbados
I've did some reading and getting different answers every other post.....

One post has more votes going to syncromesh or whatever that is....
Next post says use 10W-40 or 20W-50 motor oil and your synchros will love it
And next says 75w90 gear oil as the FSM recommended but some had problems running this oil


Which really is it to use :huh:
I have a gearbox to put in and have no clue where to start on what fluid to choose...I live in the Caribbean so climate here is warm-hot all the time

TIA

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am 
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synchromesh gear oil.

there is a good reason why gm spec'd synchromesh as THE gearbox lubricant for suzuki variants. pennzoil synchromesh is available at auto zone, $8 a quart.

changing to synchromesh from whatever sludge came in cars that i've bought has actually "healed" some transmissions that had shifting problems. it's especially effective at making that 3 to 2 downshift hiccup easier to live with.

the only thing that i have found that works about as good is aerospace lubricants' fully synthetic 70 weight ep gear oil at $33 a gallon. it's easy for me because the aerospace lubricants' main offices are 15 minutes away. it's the only oil i've found that passes all of the load tests of the astme without failures of gear faces.

the gear oil has to be light enough to drip out of the box galleys onto the transmission guts but durable enough to lubricate the ring and pinion at extreme pressure. guys have a hard time believing that the minor step between 70w and 75w is enough to cause problems, but generic 75w90 gear oil is slow death for the suzuki transmissions, especially in sub-tropical climates where the weight is more often at the 90w viscosity.

synchromesh. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Listen to
Image
t3 ragtop and you likely won't break down.
If you do put in synchromesh, ask him what the heck astme means.
(I told you his english was hard to understand :lol: ...he means 'astm')
The dealer sells a more expensive variety here in the USA:
Image
but you'll pay 3 times the price of the yellow bottle.
On another forum, some guys (hot air bags) argued against t3 ragtop's Synchromesh.
This is what their transmissions now look like:
Image
nice, eh?
:blackeye:
Bottom line: normally we here in USA use Synchromesh-
-cheap
-good quality
-easy to find
that ole t3 ragtop is one smart member with some nice wheels; you listen to him!

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DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:39 pm 
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The Smuggler
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t3 ragtop wrote:
synchromesh gear oil.

there is a good reason why gm spec'd synchromesh as THE gearbox lubricant for suzuki variants. pennzoil synchromesh is available at auto zone, $8 a quart.

changing to synchromesh from whatever sludge came in cars that i've bought has actually "healed" some transmissions that had shifting problems. it's especially effective at making that 3 to 2 downshift hiccup easier to live with.

the only thing that i have found that works about as good is aerospace lubricants' fully synthetic 70 weight ep gear oil at $33 a gallon. it's easy for me because the aerospace lubricants' main offices are 15 minutes away. it's the only oil i've found that passes all of the load tests of the astme without failures of gear faces.

the gear oil has to be light enough to drip out of the box galleys onto the transmission guts but durable enough to lubricate the ring and pinion at extreme pressure. guys have a hard time believing that the minor step between 70w and 75w is enough to cause problems, but generic 75w90 gear oil is slow death for the suzuki transmissions, especially in sub-tropical climates where the weight is more often at the 90w viscosity.

synchromesh. :wink:



Words to live by, and Pennzoil makes the GM stuff for GM.

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"I also love the 7500 rpm scream of a DOHC" :razz: 2X 1989 Swift GTi's a 92 and Jr's new 93 GT

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:17 am 
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Location: Barbados
:) Ill look into the synchromesh stuff as I never saw any of that stuff here.....

But if I don't find the exact brand, if I'm right, I'm looking for 70W-??(85,90??) semi or full synthetic gear oil?

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:52 am 
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Location: Trinidad, W.I.
I use a cocktail... 2 litres Red Line MT90, 0.5 litre Mobil 75W-90...btw, both MUST be full synthetic. The shifting is a charm so far....no grates/grinds and no mis-shifts!

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:03 am 
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The Smuggler
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Location: Surrey, BC CANADA
you will need 2.4 litres to fill your tranny, surely someone there sells Synthetic synchromesh fluid.

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"I love the whine of a turbo in the mornin" 1991 Sprint Turbo
"I also love the 7500 rpm scream of a DOHC" :razz: 2X 1989 Swift GTi's a 92 and Jr's new 93 GT

Keep your eye on the boost guage!
And I love this one!
"Dale Jarrett's crew chief" "Drive it like ya STOLE IT!"
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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:06 pm 
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Location: Barbados
Synchromesh it is!

T3 Ragtop for President!

Thanks alot for your help guys, really appreciate it 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:42 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
DeTune wrote:
T3 Ragtop for President!

We need to start a collection for his next 'Presidency Bid'.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Let us know what you think of the Synchromesh.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:38 pm 
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Phil N Ed wrote:
DeTune wrote:
T3 Ragtop for President!

We need to start a collection for his next 'Presidency Bid'.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Let us know what you think of the Synchromesh.



Well bad news is none of the parts stores not even the parts guys at the Suzuki retailer here knows of synchromesh..They were lost on what I was asking for....Closest I found was Valvoline Synthetic 75w90 and that was about $35 dollars a quart.....(Our exchange rate is $1USD - $1.98BDS)

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:57 pm 
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The Smuggler
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Location: Surrey, BC CANADA
Feebay and pay the shipping
Probably your only solution

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"I love the whine of a turbo in the mornin" 1991 Sprint Turbo
"I also love the 7500 rpm scream of a DOHC" :razz: 2X 1989 Swift GTi's a 92 and Jr's new 93 GT

Keep your eye on the boost guage!
And I love this one!
"Dale Jarrett's crew chief" "Drive it like ya STOLE IT!"
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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:27 am 
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Well local performance shop tell me he carries Redline Oil and they have a 70w80 manual tranny oil................

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=45&pcid=7

Quote:
Popular replacement for and improvement over GM Synchromesh® (#12345349) and Auto-Trak II® (#12378508), also Ford Motorcraft® XT-MT-QS


What do you guys think?

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:55 am 
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Location: Western Australia
I also come from a hot country and many of us over here are using Castrol VMX-80 (SAE 75W-80, API GL4.) in our GTi's with good results and no problems... I personally won't use anything else. It is especially good after a few decent kilometers of spirited driving!

However, I cannot seem to find this oil listed on the other countries Castrol websites including the U.S or South American sites (?) :huh:

WTF?

Drew (and Lil' Suzi)

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:30 am 
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Was told by a local guru that the MTL fluid is notorious for killing synchros and he recommended this one:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

Again any thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:23 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
DeTune wrote:
Was told by a local guru that the MTL fluid is notorious for killing synchros and he recommended this one:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

Again any thoughts?

I have read members here had the same experience.
One quart = $13.95!
Why not pay $1 more and get this:
Image
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Perfo ... ccessories
And then all the racing shops will be envious of you.
Remember, once you put it in, it should last and last and last and last....you get the idea.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:30 am 
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Location: Barbados
Phil N Ed wrote:
DeTune wrote:
Was told by a local guru that the MTL fluid is notorious for killing synchros and he recommended this one:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

Again any thoughts?

I have read members here had the same experience.
One quart = $13.95!
Why not pay $1 more and get this:
Image
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Perfo ... ccessories
And then all the racing shops will be envious of you.
Remember, once you put it in, it should last and last and last and last....you get the idea.



Well I need to install the gearbox ASAP and purchasing that for it now would be a hold up..Since I have to wait for it to ship etc..I'll probably bring in a couple gallons to store for future use 8)

But for now this is the closest to any of the good stuff :( ........ http://www.valvoline.com/products/consu ... ear-oil/59

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:48 am 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
I use that Valvoline in my '51 Chevy 2 ton truck rear axle. :oops:
You wanted to know what was best; we told you.
When you get in a hurry, that's when you make mistakes.
A few days wait won't kill you; consider it an 'exercise in patience'.
By now, that tranny fluid could be half way there.
The right fluid in the right place at the right time.
Then you'll have peace of mind that your transmission is the best!

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:16 am 
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Location: Barbados
Phil N Ed wrote:
I use that Valvoline in my '51 Chevy 2 ton truck rear axle. :oops:
You wanted to know what was best; we told you.
When you get in a hurry, that's when you make mistakes.
A few days wait won't kill you; consider it an 'exercise in patience'.
By now, that tranny fluid could be half way there.
The right fluid in the right place at the right time.
Then you'll have peace of mind that your transmission is the best!


:lol: I actually skipped the valvoline and gone with the MTL redline fluid.....I'll let you guys know how it works.....Either way I'll still be ordering a bunch of the GM stuff for future use since Suzuki themselves recommends it

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:25 am 
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Location: Regina, SK
DeTune wrote:
Was told by a local guru that the MTL fluid is notorious for killing synchros and he recommended this one:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

Again any thoughts?



220,000 Km on a stock 1.0 4.10:1 box...

Redline MTL hasn't killed it yet, infact it still shifts like butter 10,000km later.

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J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:37 pm 
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Well here goes 8)

Image
Image

Decided to mix it....Will go with 1.5qrt MTL & 1qrt MT90 since here its warm-hot temperatures ALL the time

or should I go with 2qrts MTL and .5qrt MT90? :huh:

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Location: Trinidad, W.I.
Use as much of the MT-90 as you can....so the entire quart, and 1.4 quarts of the MTL.

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Certified Suzuki Owner:
MKIII Swift GTi - The Green Destiny!
2010 Suzuki Jimny - The DD Workhorse!


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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:05 pm 
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PBC137 wrote:
Use as much of the MT-90 as you can....so the entire quart, and 1.4 quarts of the MTL.


So I should of bought two MT90s then?....

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Location: Regina, SK
DeTune wrote:
PBC137 wrote:
Use as much of the MT-90 as you can....so the entire quart, and 1.4 quarts of the MTL.


So I should of bought two MT90s then?....


Are you racing it hard and furious?

MTL

Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 56.2

MT-90

Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 90


MTL is the only one that is replacement for syncromesh:

Quote:
Popular replacement for and improvement over GM Synchromesh® (#12345349) and Auto-Trak II® (#12378508), also Ford Motorcraft® XT-MT-QS


Personally, I tend to roll with 2 bottles of MTL and one of MT-90 in my transmissions. They will see the same high temps as you do, and I appreciate the cold tranny response of the MTL. Our transmissions will rarely break 10c above ambient, unless you are thrashing on them and even then it's hard to do.

Also from a viscosity index of MTL at 183 vs MT-90 at 185, you aren't even gaining much if anything in those terms. Also the thinner oil of MTL will result in less parasitic loss from the gear oil. Honestly as well, MT-90 tends to be specced for heavier clunk happy trannys, since the thicker oil adds a bit of shock absorbition to dampen the noise.

In your climate and if it's not a dedicated racer with a LSD...

I'd use 1 Bottle of MT-90 and fill the rest with MTL, so you made the right choice in oil purchase.

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My cars:

J. McBean: '98 Suzuki Swift 1.3L 16v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk5" Made in Canada
The Mini Rattler: '94 Suzuki Swift .993L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk3" Made in Canada *The Winter Beater*
B. Berry: '90 Chevrolet Turbo Sprint 1.0L 6v SOHC 5sp+ "Mk2" Made in Japan

I got 18MPG in a 3cyl with a 5 speed manual 4dr, '93 Metro! :yeahyeah


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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:29 am 
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gamefoo21 wrote:
DeTune wrote:
PBC137 wrote:
Use as much of the MT-90 as you can....so the entire quart, and 1.4 quarts of the MTL.


So I should of bought two MT90s then?....


Are you racing it hard and furious?

MTL

Vis @ 100°C, cSt 10.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 56.2

MT-90

Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 90


MTL is the only one that is replacement for syncromesh:

Quote:
Popular replacement for and improvement over GM Synchromesh® (#12345349) and Auto-Trak II® (#12378508), also Ford Motorcraft® XT-MT-QS


Personally, I tend to roll with 2 bottles of MTL and one of MT-90 in my transmissions. They will see the same high temps as you do, and I appreciate the cold tranny response of the MTL. Our transmissions will rarely break 10c above ambient, unless you are thrashing on them and even then it's hard to do.

Also from a viscosity index of MTL at 183 vs MT-90 at 185, you aren't even gaining much if anything in those terms. Also the thinner oil of MTL will result in less parasitic loss from the gear oil. Honestly as well, MT-90 tends to be specced for heavier clunk happy trannys, since the thicker oil adds a bit of shock absorbition to dampen the noise.

In your climate and if it's not a dedicated racer with a LSD...

I'd use 1 Bottle of MT-90 and fill the rest with MTL, so you made the right choice in oil purchase.



Thanks.....Will go with this blend then 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Gearbox Fluid
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:37 pm 
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I've pondered this many times.
Forgive me for being skeptical, but what publications/manuals
spec out Syncromesh?
I've read and re-read my stuff many times and found no mention
of Syncromesh (MK1 T3), only 75w or 5w/30.
I've tried plenty of cocktails, Morey's, Marvel Mystery, and other
junk but pretty much stuck with straight Mobil 1 5w/30 and frequent changes,
about once a year or so. I drive the shit out of it and I haul
heavy shit. 500k miles and the same tranny, no problems whatsoever.
Every two weeks for about a year I was hauling stuff from San Diego
to Riverside - heavy stuff- liquid concentrates. We're talking remove
the front passenger seat and stuff the car with it's own weight.
Not to mention hauling 15-20cs of bottle water around town couple
times a week. I tore up the back seats but not the tranny.
So maybe I'll try Synchromesh in the other car, the one with the
sticky trans and see if it's really the cure. I've got a spare trans
waiting, but really don't know if I want to take the chance against
something so tried and true for me.
Royal Purple makes a Syncromesh as well, but I've been reading
mixed reviews.


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