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 Post subject: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:36 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 3
Location: Omtario Canada
Hello everyone. New member, long time lurker.

I'm working on an electric sports racer that I want to use for autocross racing.
I'm using a rear mounted 89 Swift GTi transmission mated to an electric motor. Here is a link to my build log http://www.szott.com/zot2/zot2.html

Since the motor puts out 140 ft-lb of torque from 0 to 5,000 rpm, I am getting a lot of (one) wheel spin on accelleration. I need an LSD.

I've searched this forum and found a lot of info on LSDs but most of it is not very current.
What I'm looking for, in order of preference, is 1) torsen type, 2) clutch type, or as a last resort, 3) phantom grip.

I'd appreciate any suggestions, advice and links to current suppliers. (I know where I can get the phantom grip)

I have access to a machine shop so I would consider modifying to fit if I can't get something off the shelf.

Thanks in advance.
Jan
Ontario, Canada


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:19 am
Posts: 361
Location: Canberra, Australlia
http://www.modenaengineering.com.au/ they make torsen diff for GTi. Looking at around AUD1300 new.

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 3
Location: Omtario Canada
FlyingGrape wrote:
http://www.modenaengineering.com.au/ they make torsen diff for GTi. Looking at around AUD1300 new.

I already spoke to Modena. They don't make them any more. They can do a special order but they need an order for at least 10 units.. They quoted me $1100AUD each if I order 10.


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:31 pm
Posts: 2457
Location: New York State
Why are you using a Swift transmission? A Civic transmission is stronger and the LSD should be cheaper. You could probably get a JDM Honda Trans with a factory LSD for less than the Swift LSD by itself.

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1994 Metro - MPH project (getting a DOHC G13B)
1994 Metro - MPG project (getting an XFi G10)
1992 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1991 Swift - Parts car (gone)
1990 Swift - Parts car
1997 Metro - Parts car (gone)
1993 Metro - Parts car
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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:59 am
Posts: 1047
Location: Canby, OR
:werd:

I love what you have done with your car(I read the whole build), and I love swifts, but our trannies are utter garbage. Looks like it would be a ton of work to un-do all the stuff you have done to make the Swift stuff work in your Lotus clone, but maybe a 1.6 swift trans would be a way for you to not have to re-engineer too much stuff and end up with a tranny that will better take the mountain of instant torque your elect motor will be able to put out.

With just a turbo setup on my GT I'm having to go into the trans AGAIN (bearings / breaking diff pin through the case, etc.) for the 3d time.

You would still have the LSD issue though, I don't think anyone makes a LSD for the 1.6.... so your machine shop you have access to would maybe have to modify one from an existing car.

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 3
Location: Omtario Canada
airwerks wrote:
:werd:

I love what you have done with your car(I read the whole build), and I love swifts, but our trannies are utter garbage. Looks like it would be a ton of work to un-do all the stuff you have done to make the Swift stuff work in your Lotus clone, but maybe a 1.6 swift trans would be a way for you to not have to re-engineer too much stuff and end up with a tranny that will better take the mountain of instant torque your elect motor will be able to put out.

With just a turbo setup on my GT I'm having to go into the trans AGAIN (bearings / breaking diff pin through the case, etc.) for the 3d time.

You would still have the LSD issue though, I don't think anyone makes a LSD for the 1.6.... so your machine shop you have access to would maybe have to modify one from an existing car.


Maybe I should have used another doner but I've always had a love for the Swift ever since I owned a 91GT. I never had one problem during the 10 years I had it until the frame rusted out and I had to tearfully take it to the bone yard.
Yes, I don't mind modifying one but I have no idea as to what is even close to the right size. Suggestions are welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:00 am 
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Teamswift Racer
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:56 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
Hi, have just read your website, VERY nice job, am building a rwd two seater myself (slowly and it's an ICE),Aeriel Atom style, will be using a swift box in the back, will probably use the 1600 sedan fwd box as it is cable shift and hydraulic clutch, the top two bolts holes on the box require modifying and you will need to use the 1600 flywheel and clutch if you wanted to use it with your current motor adapter, also the intermediate shaft mount is just slightly different, personally if you already have the 'little' g13b box then keep using it, if you break it then the g16 box is the closest heavy duty replacement, pm CodyP76 on this site as he fixes and parts out hundreds of suzuki's and it likely to have one.

Torsen style is the way to go for your car, the sound of clicking lsd plates would be really annoying when there is so little other noise, there is an Italian company that makes LSD's for Mk2/3 suzuki swifts, just rebuilt my pc(HD did not survive earthquake) and lost all my bookmarks so I can't find a link for them sorry, Cusco also make/made torsen style lsd's as well, Gripper in the UK make clutch type and are probably the best LSD's around, couple of guys on this site running them, otherwise sign up to redlinegti (sister site to this and mostly aussie based) and ask around for a 2nd hand Mondena lsd, they do come up quite often although resale is usually 85% of new price.

Omarcitoh in Spain will know of other lsd suppliers, he's tried (and broken) quite a few of them :lol:

P.S Honda is a pita, spins the wrong way :thwack:


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:36 am
Posts: 196
Location: Spain
Dattman wrote:
Hi, have just read your website, VERY nice job, am building a rwd two seater myself (slowly and it's an ICE),Aeriel Atom style, will be using a swift box in the back, will probably use the 1600 sedan fwd box as it is cable shift and hydraulic clutch, the top two bolts holes on the box require modifying and you will need to use the 1600 flywheel and clutch if you wanted to use it with your current motor adapter, also the intermediate shaft mount is just slightly different, personally if you already have the 'little' g13b box then keep using it, if you break it then the g16 box is the closest heavy duty replacement, pm CodyP76 on this site as he fixes and parts out hundreds of suzuki's and it likely to have one.

Torsen style is the way to go for your car, the sound of clicking lsd plates would be really annoying when there is so little other noise, there is an Italian company that makes LSD's for Mk2/3 suzuki swifts, just rebuilt my pc(HD did not survive earthquake) and lost all my bookmarks so I can't find a link for them sorry, Cusco also make/made torsen style lsd's as well, Gripper in the UK make clutch type and are probably the best LSD's around, couple of guys on this site running them, otherwise sign up to redlinegti (sister site to this and mostly aussie based) and ask around for a 2nd hand Mondena lsd, they do come up quite often although resale is usually 85% of new price.

Omarcitoh in Spain will know of other lsd suppliers, he's tried (and broken) quite a few of them :lol:

P.S Honda is a pita, spins the wrong way :thwack:


:o
Dattman you refer to this http://www.bacciromano.com/index.php?p= ... =70&mar=13 ? If yes...They are not cheap and lsd is plate type...


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Teamswift Racer
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:56 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
Thanks Omar, yes that was the site, couldn't remember if they made a torsen or plate type lsd, yes they are a bit expensive, strange when you consider thier close ratio gear kit is actually quite good value.


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 19
Location: Croatia
In Hungary you can buy used LSD at very low price(cca 400-600 EUR... Bacci, Quaife)... major problem for all of us is their language... and many of them don't speak any other language than hungarian... I'm their neighbour(Croatia) and don't understand a thing... LOL... :huh: :huh: :huh:

Bacci LSD is ok, because you can buy all the spare parts that you need(and if needed)...


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:06 pm
Posts: 291
Location: bournemouth,england
im running a gripper in my gti, its a combo of locking and clutch plates ivdriven a similar car to a swift with a factory cusco type and tbh i didnt like it that much
with the gripper the lock is a bit more harsh than the cusco type diffs but you probabally wont notice as much in rwd than you would in fwd
the only down side is they are quite expencive now, it was £500 when i got mine a good 5 years ago

gary

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:30 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:08 am
Posts: 20
Location: Hungary
Hello Everybody,

I'm a newbie here.
I can produce and sell Helical/Torsen LSD-s for suzuki swift.
This "no brand" torsens made in absolutly superb quality.
No wearing parts, simple fit, replace OEM diff.
Dramatically improve handling and cornering speed.
I'm using the same type in my rallysprint car.

If you have any question please do not hesitate to write: wokum@freemail.hu
I will send photos, specs on request.

I'm living in Hungary, and sorry my english is poor as our croatian friend said. :lol: :lol:


It was an used one (sold to down under last week):
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 879
Location: malaysia
i have 3 set used cusco LSD for gti. selling for 700usd + shipping each. Drop me PM if interested. Its clutch type

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:03 am 
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:52 pm
Posts: 59
Location: jamaica
hailings all, recently got myself a gti and looking at ways to improve on its handling and power potential. will be boosting it and use it for weekend circuit racing at dover, here in jamaica. this is a colleague of mine, no lsd means corner exits are plagued with wheelspin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31RWnJLvI5k
http://www.youtube.com/user/byles12?ble ... g3njHkjsDw

would definately be interested in getting a lsd and if possible, convert to 4wd. those prices seem a bit on the steep side especially with a conversion rate of 1usd = 87JA.

i know quite a few of my colleagues here who would also be interested so maybe we could make a bulk order of the price is good.

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:53 pm
Posts: 53
Balli, the quality is really excellent and the metal is damn tough, but the sun gears are in the opposite orientation to normal - and can't be swapped easily because they have different outer diameters. When power is applied they are forced inwards instead of outwards. Diff still works but lots of stress in put in the thin star shaped tube that holds the belleville washers. Unless this is deliberate for some reason, it is opposite to the quaife design that pushes them outwards towards the casing.

Please have a good look yourself and see if you know what I am talking about. There is one good link below.

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=520556



balli wrote:
Hello Everybody,

I'm a newbie here.
I can produce and sell Helical/Torsen LSD-s for suzuki swift.
This "no brand" torsens made in absolutly superb quality.
No wearing parts, simple fit, replace OEM diff.
Dramatically improve handling and cornering speed.
I'm using the same type in my rallysprint car.

If you have any question please do not hesitate to write: wokum@freemail.hu
I will send photos, specs on request.

I'm living in Hungary, and sorry my english is poor as our croatian friend said. :lol: :lol:


It was an used one (sold to down under last week):
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:02 am
Posts: 326
Location: Barbados
oMaRCiToh wrote:
Dattman you refer to this http://www.bacciromano.com/index.php?p= ... =70&mar=13 ? If yes...They are not cheap and lsd is plate type...


Is it me or is the gearkit from those guys helical cut? :huh:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:59 am 
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Teamswift Racer
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:56 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
Yep, and the problem with that is???


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:02 am
Posts: 326
Location: Barbados
Dattman wrote:
Yep, and the problem with that is???


:o No problem....This is actually a great thing :D

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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:30 am 
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Teamswift Racer
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:56 am
Posts: 2328
Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
It's good if you want to do the sleeper thing, they are more expensive as they need to be ground and helical gears do put a lot of pressure on the casing.

I have just bought a 2nd hand Bacci plate type LSD and the quality seems very good, haven't got it in the car yet.


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 Post subject: Re: LSD advice needed
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:30 am
Posts: 22
Location: UK
Make sure you have the half-shafts, or whatever they are called, that goes into the pumpkin as well, It is uses cone clutches rather than helical gears. But the shift window is definitely much shorter compared to stock.


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