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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Location: tallahassee, fl
well guys thought ill share with you our new project as i haven't seen it done for our cars except for high cost ones that for some reviews the don't work as promised, here in colombia we got a shop that makes and rebuild clutch systems mostly for big rigs and buses etc, but also make performance clutch systems for small cars like our swifts and others so as we been making single discs with ceramic pads and dual diaphragm systems we decided to step it up a bit and make a dual disc system that we hope works lol as it is rite now it barelly fits... hope it does :wink: now its just a matter of finishing a couple of tweaks and pulling the clutch together cause we just took it apart again.... yep again but that is the last time n we hope to put it in the car by the weekend. let me know what u think n ill post some more pics during the week


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:41 am 
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Looks sweet, no problems with clearance?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:23 am 
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A bit when we started but milled here n there n as now we dont have to gring anything on the tranny but one thing is to see it in a spare tranny n other see everything working n burning rubber lol. The idea is to make it as a bolt on set up for our customers n telling them they will have to grind the tranny to fit the set up is not what we are looking for.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:41 pm 
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well here is an update on things pretty much done just some paint and hoping for a nice day on sunday to pull the tranny n do the final clearance test n take the car for a ride n see how it feels


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:50 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
Reminds me of the Peterbilt clutches, eh?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:06 pm 
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what is the advantage ?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:28 pm 
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the advantages are various from better faster engagement of the clutch meaning faster takeoffs and less slipping of the disc while shifting which can buy u a couple seconds at a race specially this design without springs on the disc, the discs with springs acts like a shock absorber to the system. but we decided to use the "tractor like clutches" as we call them here. for two reasons for better traction on the wheels when engaged and because of the space lol.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:15 am 
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clutchla45 wrote:
the advantages are various from better faster engagement of the clutch meaning faster takeoffs and less slipping of the disc while shifting which can buy u a couple seconds at a race specially this design without springs on the disc, the discs with springs acts like a shock absorber to the system. but we decided to use the "tractor like clutches" as we call them here. for two reasons for better traction on the wheels when engaged and because of the space lol.

:goodpost:
Kinda makes you wonder why a diesel uses a double disc clutch, eh?

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:00 am 
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Location: tallahassee, fl
Yes many of the diesel rigs use them ill add the pics later where do u think the dual disc idea comes from.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:02 am 
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clutchla45 wrote:
Yes many of the diesel rigs use them ill add the pics later where do u think the dual disc idea comes from.

A lot of 'innovations' (new ideas) are actually ideas which have been used on diesel trucks for years.
Believe it or not, machinists do not have a monopoly on engine technology.
The people who drive trucks for a living have a long history of loving the open road, high technology in engines, and they try many things to see if it makes their job better.
Turbocharged engines is a good example, and many years ago, they learned that the turbocharger was a reliable way to increase horsepower.
Multi-disc clutches are not new, either.
They've been in trucks for years. Within the past 6 years, there may be a 600+ horsepower Corvette which switched to a dual disc clutch due to superior clamping force.
You can read about different kinds of clutches here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch
but they do not cover the multi disc clutches very well.

Good luck with your project, and let us know how well it works.
Some of the more 'die hard' racing members with plenty of money will probably be interested in your clutches as you improve them.

:thumb2: :thumb2: :thumb2:

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:56 pm 
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Location: tallahassee, fl
well it is true many ideas that we use when tuning our cars comes from other sources like this one its been on the market for a while there are many companies doing it like exedy but what we are mainly trying to do is a cost effective system for the average joe. and since we have only seen one for our cars in the suzukird site well we decided to give it a try it may not look racy or even pretty like others but what we are looking for is better performance. and like you said phil we would like to make it work and improve it but at an affordable price. like we been doing with our single set ups which are cheaper compared to the ones we see in north america which vary from 350usd and up here we sell them for 230usd with 90 day warranty on parts and labor, probably this system that is on the making might cost somewhere in the 450's usd if it works lol but as of now its just an experiment until the thing is tested in the car and then making better times at the track.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:15 am 
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Location: Trinidad, W.I.
clutchla45 wrote:
the advantages are various from better faster engagement of the clutch meaning faster takeoffs and less slipping of the disc while shifting which can buy u a couple seconds at a race specially this design without springs on the disc, the discs with springs acts like a shock absorber to the system. but we decided to use the "tractor like clutches" as we call them here. for two reasons for better traction on the wheels when engaged and because of the space lol.


This may be so but I still think its overkill for a 1.3l n/a engine...if anything it adds more 'strain' to the engine driveline by virtue of the additional rotating mass. I have owned turbocharged vehicles making in excess of 300lb.ft of torque and even in spite of dual disc setups being readily available from manufacturers such as Tilton, ORC etc, my JUN single disc setup was more than sufficient to handle what my engine was putting out.

One would have to be putting out some serious power on a forced induction engine to warrant the use of one of these imho.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:39 am 
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My stock engines are closer to 30 horsepower than 300! :lol: :lol: :lol:
However, you've got to give him credit for a great effort.

Kindly post the weight differences between your dual disc clutch and a stock set up.
(include the total weight of all the rotating parts, please)
Good luck with the project.

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DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:07 pm 
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^^Oh no, never at all was my intention one at discrediting his attempt....actually I applaud guys like him who push the bar. I was just critiquing the real world application of such a set up for the regular joe like myself. Hell, if I had the resources like the OP, I'd do a freaking triple disc setup! :lol:

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MKIII Swift GTi - The Green Destiny!
2010 Suzuki Jimny - The DD Workhorse!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:09 am 
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were probably limited by disc size. I'm betting those high hp engines have larger diameter discs and higher clamp load plates. my 300hp (stock) car has a pretty large disc and very heavy pressure plate (it has a vacuum booster on the clutch pedal assy)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:52 am 
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Congrats on building it all but I have to agree with pbc137, if you need a clutch like that you are going to need some VERY heavy duty axles.

An old group N suzuki swift racer here in NZ raced these cars when new, broke 6 axles in one season with a clutch like that(only had 12 races plus practices and qualifying) before he figured it out, trick was a standard organic clutch plate with a heavy duty clutch cover, the little bit of mush in the standard plate cushioned the shock on the drive train, did the whole of the next season without breaking any drivetrain components.

Advice like that was worth it's weight in gold, I haven't broken a single axle yet in 4 years of racing my current swift


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:09 am 
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Location: tallahassee, fl
it is true the system will put more strain in the drive but as a reminder this project is for pure racing but on he cheap for those who want a good product at a low cost and thanks for the advice something that we always have asked is how the axles will respond for that we got something coming up later as we test the system here i got the pic i promised days ago but haven't had time...hoping to do the install tomorrow....will keep posting as we go


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Dattman wrote:
Congrats on building it all but I have to agree with pbc137, if you need a clutch like that you are going to need some VERY heavy duty axles.

An old group N suzuki swift racer here in NZ raced these cars when new, broke 6 axles in one season with a clutch like that(only had 12 races plus practices and qualifying) before he figured it out, trick was a standard organic clutch plate with a heavy duty clutch cover, the little bit of mush in the standard plate cushioned the shock on the drive train, did the whole of the next season without breaking any drivetrain components.

Advice like that was worth it's weight in gold, I haven't broken a single axle yet in 4 years of racing my current swift


This is very good advice! unless your engine is making 300+ HP, there is no need for a clutch like that. And if one was building an engine that would be worthy of a clutch system like that, then they certainly wouldn't be playing around with the 'Toy' gearbox that is used in our cars from the factory.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:21 pm 
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Location: tallahassee, fl
hey guys been trying to put this thing on the car for the past week but there is something always coming up and delaying things... someone asked me about the weight well here it is
oem system 3.8 kilos
oem clutch with ceramic disc 3.7
dual diaphragm with single ceramic 3.8
dual diaphragm and dual ceramic disc 5.1

im actually concerned about the weight now lol... got to put it on a diet lol

and also i just want to say i know this system might not be practical at all for the daily driver but still why not try it for the weekend racer there is a lot of interest from some of our customers as some of them have a bit more hps under the hood and want to test this system i know this trannys are not the strongest but it is not a product that we intend to make exclusive for swift it is something that we want to test in other cars as well, we just made one for it just because.... one i got one, two i am a fanatic of them.

im not even putting it on a twincam it will be going on stock 1.3 sohc four door, but after we finish testing it on ours for fitment and space it will be handed to one of our customer for him to use for a bit at the strip (hope his tranny will hold otherwise got to pay for it lol)

still guys we appreciate your comments and support


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:09 pm 
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hey guys just an update monday we tried to install pulled the tranny down but we found that the housing of the tranny had three points where the housing of the clutch was going to rub so decided to just install the clutch with one disc but havent abandoned the idea....looking around found that the clutch of the sprint will clear because is not as tall and narrower than the one for the swift so coming up is the swift flywheel with a sprint clutch and some other changes but its going to take some time as im not goin to be at the shop every day now but will post as we go when the time comes.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:45 am 
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Most dual plate clutch systems use a 5" or 7", perhaps if you changed the size of the plate and lightened the flywheel on the face it would clear. But imho a single is all that has been necessary even when racing, especially NA. Plus more rotating parts means more can go wrong and more to replace and the associated costs.


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