TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
Anyone got any info on who i can deal with to get a kit either made or just buy one for our rally car.. any help would be much appreciated.. Cheers Shaun


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:54 pm 
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http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53134
it's just not yet posted in the transmission section...

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Silver 2000 Firefly 4DR; 16V SOHC, 3 to 5 speed swap, install PS and AC, remote and auto start, PL, PW, kill and start switch, Valentine 1, behind-bumper CAI, 55MM TB with coolant-bypass, polyurethane-fill engine/shifter mounts, modified to short shifter, upgraded electrical system, CS130 alternator, 90/160W headlights + relay mod, ceramic H4 plug/harness
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:18 am 
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Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
Welcome to Teamswift, where abouts are you?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:47 am 
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Location: Rivendell
At a guess.... New Zealand?

:screwball:

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:04 am 
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Tard! :lol: Lin go back to your chopper wheel and dizzy teeth

Where abouts in NZ then? Rally extreme series or club events?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Hey guys.. in in Chch, so not rally extreme, sadly enouf im not even the driver, im just the builder, designer, mechanic and paint and panel shop, oh and co-driver.. we went alrite last year just had some gearbox issues at Otago rally, now getting ontop of that problem its time to start turning one of the spare boxs into sumfin more serious.. Ive been on this site and had sum very useful info so thought id join up and get involved.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Is this Hamish Andersons car? Quick check thru the results of the local car clubs here and he's the only one I don't know.

For a rally car I wouldn't bother with the 'little' gearset, I would bite the bullet and change over to the slightly bigger but much stronger g16fwd cable shift box, you can then use the CR gearsets and diff from the new swift models and you'll have bigger inner cv's as a bonus.

If Rex Russel don't have any g16fwd cable shift boxes left then Mud bits in Tauranga have one for a $100 on trademe.
Rex Russel used to have plenty but the rally guys from Gore have made a few trips up and cleaned out our stock :lol:

Does David Fletcher still have the black cultus???


Last edited by Dattman on Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Hi Shaun
Have you taken those two rear trim panels out? I'm still keen on them when they are available...
Jon


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:58 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
Yea it is Hamish Andersons car... and we have had alot of cv dramas too sounds like you have this all sorted, does the box out of the g16 have a better ratio between 1st and 2nd cause thats where we are getting in alot of trouble also..
And will get that sorted this weekend Jon..


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Do we need a teamswift NZ chapter sub board?????

AND Derek, I have now resolved chopper wheels and dizzy teeth.
Adaptronic can handle the stock sensor in the dizzy. All I need to do is remove the rotor, blank off the top of the housing and throw the dizzy cap away...

I put the chopper wheels back on the kids bike.....

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
havent seen the black cultus round, also what about hubs does this mean they are needing replacment and the lsd i have in this box will it change over..


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Dattman wrote:
Is this Hamish Andersons car? Quick check thru the results of the local car clubs here and he's the only one I don't know.

For a rally car I wouldn't bother with the 'little' gearset, I would bite the bullet and change over to the slightly bigger but much stronger g16fwd cable shift box, you can then use the CR gearsets and diff from the new swift models and you'll have bigger inner cv's as a bonus.

If Rex Russel don't have any g14fwd cable shift boxes left then Mud bits in Tauranga have one for a $100 on trademe.
Rex Russel used to have plenty but the rally guys from Gore have made a few trips up and cleaned out our stock :lol:

Does David Fletcher still have the black cultus???


Derek, can you use the stock flywheel with the G16fwd box? I am thinking of the awd gbox off the g16 with the flywheel that needs to go to Jenny Craig...

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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how much you push the wall out.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:37 am 
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shaun_NZ wrote:
havent seen the black cultus round, also what about hubs does this mean they are needing replacement and the lsd i have in this box will it change over..


I think he sold it, ran in local rallies for 3 or 4 years, was a 4wd cultus and coverted to fwd, blanked off the back part of the gearbox, thats the same gearset internally as the g16fwd box and also the same as the current models but with a monster sized diff, basically bullet proof.


ellpee wrote:
Derek, can you use the stock flywheel with the G16fwd box? I am thinking of the awd gbox off the g16 with the flywheel that needs to go to Jenny Craig...


Not sure on the g16awd box, very heavy though, if you use the g13b awd box then it will bolt up without adapting the bell housing.
The little g10/g13 box has 60mm centres between the shafts and therefore small bearings and thin shafts, the larger gearset has 70mm centres so has thicker shafts, bigger bearings and bigger teeth on the gears, the gearset is interchangable with the current M series models.

Yes the hubs in suzuki gearboxes are not very good and yes the huge gap between 1st and 2nd means large differences in gear speeds and the syncro's have a hard job speeding up and slowing down when using 1st and 2nd.

I got around this by cutting much taller 1st and 2nd gears, however even with a 4.38 diff I can still do 80kph in 1st on small tyres.
Also my car is much lighter than any swift rally car could be, 650kgs with dot tyres for hillclimbs and 630kgs with slicks on and also I'm still running an open diff, all of which adds up to zero gearbox issues over the last 4 years.

For a rally car I would defintely go with the bigger frame gearset, the much greater weight, rougher terrain, bigger heavier wheels and longer distances involved are too much for a gearbox originally designed for a 70hp engine.

Unfortunately you can't use your little lsd in the larger gearset but there are plenty of lsd choices for the new swift.

Standard gti(excluding north america)
3.416
1.894
1.375
1.030
0.87

Swift Sedan G16B (5MT)
(1) 3.250
(2) 1.772
(3) 1.233
(4) 0.911
(5) 0.769
Final: 3.722

New Swift Sport M16A (5MT)
(1) 3.250
(2) 1.904
(3) 1.407
(4) 1.064
(5) 0.885
Final: 4.388

So the cheapest best option is to use a g16b fwd cable shift bellhousing(still need to modify the top two bolt holes) with the rest of a new swift sport box, closer ratio's and replacing syncro's and hubs will be cheap and easy for years to come, plus the m series hubs are much better designed.
Yes you'll need to use the super heavy g16b flywheel and clutch, dmwdave sells new billets, plus the g16 driveshafts fit your exisiting hubs but have bigger inner cv's.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:39 am
Posts: 205
Location: Melbourne
Thanks for the input

Quote:
Swift Sedan G16B vs S. Sport M16A (5MT)
(1) 3.250 vs 3.250
(2) 1.772 vs 1.904
(3) 1.233 vs 1.407
(4) 0.911 vs 1.064
(5) 0.769 vs 0.885
(F) 3.722 vs 4.388


I like the idea of a custom 2.6 first for a g16b box
but needs 1.407 for 3rd from the M16a box.

Whats the most affordable LSD for these boxes atm?

Im thinking evil thoughts of using fitting a g16b in the rear
of my 596kg datsun 1000 with De Dion tube rear end.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:36 am 
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Personally I would use a mx5 diff if I was making a rwd project...

I crunched some numbers for the large frame size gearbox, (g16fwd, 4wd cultus, new gen m series swift), using the biggest tooth size you can get either 2.769 or 2.5 for first gear, it's actually an imperial tooth size, alblins use this in their dogbox kits, strongest tooth size you can squeze in there.

Since 1st and 2nd are together on the input shaft you need to do both so a 2.5 1st and 1.778 2nd gear along with the rest of a swift sport would give a nice gearbox.


Standard Swift Sport gearbox using 185/50 x 15
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 27.521 KPH/1000 RPM and a top speed of 220.169 KPH at 8000 RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 59.954 KPH
And changes into 2 gear at 4687 RPM dropping 3313 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 102.337 KPH
And changes into 3 gear at 5912 RPM dropping 2088 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 138.486 KPH
And changes into 4 gear at 6050 RPM dropping 1950 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 183.129 KPH
And changes into 5 gear at 6654 RPM dropping 1346 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 220.169 KPH

=================================================================

With a tall first and 2nd gear you get, again at 8000rpm

Top Speed in 1 gear = 77.940 KPH
And changes into 2 gear at 5690 RPM dropping 2310 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 109.589 KPH
And changes into 3 gear at 6331 RPM dropping 1669 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 138.486 KPH
And changes into 4 gear at 6050 RPM dropping 1950 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 183.129 KPH
And changes into 5 gear at 6654 RPM dropping 1346 RPM
Top Speed in 5 gear = 220.169 KPH

Attachment:
sport vs custom.jpg
sport vs custom.jpg [ 59.34 KIB | Viewed 1878 times ]

The red line is the tall custom 1st and 2nd gears, obviously.

Compare the standard swift box with the standard g16fwd box but using the same 4.38 diff
Attachment:
Sport vs g16fwd.jpg
Sport vs g16fwd.jpg [ 59.92 KIB | Viewed 1878 times ]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:21 am 
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Location: Melbourne
The last graph shows the G16B box as a autobahn cruiser :)

I found a Liana 5 speed box at the wreckers, any good or similar to the Suzuki Sport? maybe not.


As for the miata lsd, eliminating the extra weight of the RWD config would save me 30kg easily.

eg.
vitara rwd box (stronger than sierra box) 38kg, tailshaft 5kg, diff 30kg = around 72kg where g16b box lsd 42kg (30kg lighter). Didnt include CVs as are same for both. Shortened volvo 360glt single leaf springs 5kg each side, coilovers 2.5kg each, cv rear hubs 2.5kg each = 20kg for De Dion setup + 42kg g16b = 72kg

Miata rear end complete 86-90kg (depending on model) + vitara box 38kg = total 124kg - 72kg = 42kg savings.

My B10 596kg - H145 diff = 550kg - tailshaft = 545kg - gearbox 56a = 530kg - A10 engine = 420kg + G13b = 485kg + de dion G16b box conversion = 545kg excluding unitary cage/frame for both Miata or g16b De dion setup.

Maybe I got the g16b lsd weight wrong?

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