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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:14 pm 
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consolidating threads/ post here
Here's what happened
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=56734


Also below {relevant info } is taken from viewtopic.php?f=9&t=42589

{So my task was to see the damage done to my transmission The case is split and it turns out the grinding noise was a bad (call it mangled) left input shaft bearing (tried to take a picture but it didn't work)
Attachment:
Leftbearing.jpg
Leftbearing.jpg [ 34.21 KIB | Viewed 4200 times ]

Fished out the metal pieces and 14 bearings,
Attachment:
Whatsleft ofleft.jpg
Whatsleft ofleft.jpg [ 82.76 KIB | Viewed 4200 times ]

two which melted together and upset the rest of them

Attachment:
fusedtwobearings.jpg
fusedtwobearings.jpg [ 56.53 KIB | Viewed 4200 times ]

So far every thing else looks OK ie no damage to gears or synchros- it's just that now the bearing race is on the shaft with nothing to grip to pull it?
Attachment:
Raceinput.jpg
Raceinput.jpg [ 76.7 KIB | Viewed 4200 times ]


So this is my first transmission rebuild and got a bearing rebuild kit
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-CM-Sprint ... e2&vxp=mtr}


Presently:
Kit arrived and took the input & countershaft to a machine shop to remove & replace the 4 bearings ($35). Turns out the Left bearing race was slightly welded to the shaft & had to be cut with a grinder & then pressed. The other 3 bearings were normal.

On the input shaft the machinist noted the bushing at the very tip looked worn (basically like an hour glass i.e. alley's in the middle of the bushing)
Attachment:
pilot bushingshaft.jpg
pilot bushingshaft.jpg [ 71.4 KIB | Viewed 4200 times ]

Attachment:
pilotbushInptshft.jpeg
pilotbushInptshft.jpeg [ 68.16 KIB | Viewed 4200 times ]


So my question is how damning is this wear to the input shaft? Can it still be used? Or do I need to find a new input shaft?

My other question is how to remove the pilot bearing from the flywheel (attached to the car)?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:09 pm 
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That worn part is the part that fits in the pilot bearing.

Hard to tell from the pic how worn it is.
I would take your new pilot bearing and fit it on the shaft
and see how much play there is and go from there.

Easiest way to take the pilot bearing off is to remove the flywheel,
and use a socket as a punch to pop it out.
Flywheel is easy to remove, you will want to resurface it anyhow.

Or use a blind bearing puller or hook and slide hammer to pull it out
if you don't take the flywheel off. Old school trick is to pack it with grease
and then use a punch in the center hole, which should push out the bearing
when you compress the grease with the punch. But i would just take it off.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:44 am 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
That worn part is the part that fits in the pilot bearing.

Hard to tell from the pic how worn it is.
... .....Old school trick is to pack it with grease
and then use a punch in the center hole, which should push out the bearing
when you compress the grease with the punch. But i would just take it off.



Yeah it was hard to get a good pic with my phone camera. Went to a parts store looking for a pilot bearing puller, but what they had was too big to fit in the bearing hole. I started talking to the sales woman about what I was trying to do. Just so happened her specialty was working on transmissions. She suggested the grease thing also & said even bread works. After talking about the wear on the shaft, she said I might get away with it as is, or there were cap + bearing matches sold to fit over it, or a machine shop. Well since she knew so much; I went home and brought back the shaft to get her opinion & she said it was basically toast & I should fix or replace it. The new bearing did wooble. Brought it to a transmission rebuilding shop next and they hooked me up with a machinist that can fix it. So it's in the shop to get a fitted sleeve and then re ground to the new pilot bearings specs.

I also bought a 0.98 cents loaf whole wheat bread to get the pilot bearing out. Took about 1 slice stuffed inside the pilot bearing , inserted a slightly smaller bolt against the breaded hole and hit with a hammer, re-stuffed as the bearing moved (total of two slices) & the bearing popped right out. Afterwords the bread was all compacted and came out in 3 cast molded pieces (such an easy clean up). Too funny!

My Fly wheel looks fine so I think I'm just gonna clean it up and replace the clutch. The clutch I took off was actually in really good shape. It's my only car and I'm tired of biking. Thanks for the reply


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Problem/question as I am trying to replace the bearing races. I noticed on the two bearing races on the left half (fifth gear) where the input and countershaft's extrude, are set at two different levels with respect to the Tanny casing i.e the contershaft race extrudes above flush, while the input shaft sits below flush with the tans. casing (see below)
Attachment:
inpt-contrshaft races.jpg
inpt-contrshaft races.jpg [ 99.17 KIB | Viewed 4156 times ]
Attachment:
Inpt-countr race closeup.jpg
Inpt-countr race closeup.jpg [ 72.73 KIB | Viewed 4156 times ]


So wondering if this is normal or did the left bearing being mangled possibly offset the races? Also if it's normal: when remove the races will they re-seat themselves back to these positions or am I going to need a special tool to set them as per FSM?


Attachments:
Leftbearshmtool.jpg [161.61 KIB]
Not downloaded yet
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Hopefully you read my previous posts in the other thread noting
to mark the shim placement, as to which shim goes to which shaft
upon reassembly.

Also noted the the bearing races are 'floating'.
Once you put the case halves together, the bearing races on
the exposed case halve will need to be seated on the shaft
bearings. Initially done with finger pressure, as you will
find the the races on that end will move back and forth.
It is the other end that the races are fixed in the case half.
So the shims are what will ultimately adjust the race on the
bearing. They go under the end plate. So if the shims are the
correct thickness, the will be flush with the end, then you put the
plate on and it provides the proper preload on the bearings
with the shims once you secure the metal plate.

There is a procedure to measure the clearance for the correct
size shim as I'm sure you've read. But you're gonna have to kinda
fudge it as no one has the nut tool that you're supposed to torque
on before you measure the clearance to determine the correct
shim thickness.

The shims will vary based on a few different tolerances, basically
if you have put the replacement bearings in the exact same position,
and the amount/thickness of sealer you use between the case halves.
Hopefully, in most cases the OE shims that you marked before removing
will be sufficient as long as you put them on the right shaft race.
That is the trickiest part of reassembling the tranny, determining
if the shims are correct size and provide the proper bearing preload.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Attachment:
shims.jpg
shims.jpg [ 91.91 KIB | Viewed 4154 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:32 pm 
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Alright that helps me a lot. I got confused because of Fig 7A-71 shows a tool to for "removal or installation" of bearing cups (p p7A-27 of FSM).
Attachment:
traxwlft 7A27.jpg
traxwlft 7A27.jpg [ 183.53 KIB | Viewed 4148 times ]


So the races are pressed in with 2-3 fingers > AFTER the two halves are assembled &
the plate sets them with the shims when tightened down.

I did mark the shims as you suggested, however, unlike what the FSM says
my shims do not have their thickness (a#) stamped on them?
Not sure there's much I can do about that at this point though.

Attachment:
Shimstamps.jpg
Shimstamps.jpg [ 72.43 KIB | Viewed 4148 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:08 pm 
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Quote:
So the races are pressed in with 2-3 fingers > AFTER the two halves are assembled &
the plate sets them with the shims when tightened down.


Just to be clear, install the races before putting the case together,
the moveable races in the one half will somewhat self adjust
if necessary when you press the halves together.

During the process, rotating the shafts may help to seat everything
properly, then again when you apply pressure on the moveable
races to snug them up.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:47 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
Just to be clear, install the races before putting the case together,
the moveable races in the one half will somewhat self adjust
if necessary when you press the halves together.

During the process, rotating the shafts may help to seat everything
properly, then again when you apply pressure on the moveable
races to snug them up.


Yeah I guess they would be pretty hard to get in after assembly :idea: . So the left half bearings and race are placed together on the ends of the input & counter shafts and then the cases brought together? These races are not installed into the casing which which defines them as free floating?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 8:44 pm 
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Install all the races in the case.

When you install the right side, they are fixed,
once you seat the races they don't move.

On the left side, once you place the races in the hole,
they can slide either way. You can't seat them because
they'll just fly out the back end. So when you install
them in the left case half, their initial position doesn't
really matter. Once you slide the case over the shafts,
if the races are too far forward, the bearings will push
the races back as you bring the case halves together.
What prevents the races from coming out once you have
it together is the metal plate with the screw, and it's
the shims that take up any slack between bearing race
and the backing plate. That's why it's important to have the
correct shims, as once you put on the backing plate, it's what
keeps the races snug against the bearing. If the shims are too
thick, there's too much preload and you'll wear out the bearing,
if the shims are too thin then you'll have play in the bearing.

Get it?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:52 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
Install all the races in the case.



Get it?


OK I Got it! thanks for the clarification.
Still waiting on my input shaft, but trying prepare everything else before, what I hope is, final reassembly.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:32 pm 
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OK finally got my input shaft back with the re machined pilot bushing. Went to Lowes and bought a 6 x3/4 inch piece of galvanized pipe for $2.50, which worked perfectly to pound in both left & right bearings onto the input shaft. Cleaned up all the mating surfaces with a razor blade scraper, followed by wiping down with a t-shirt soaked in acetone (remove any oil grease, etc). Started to clean the gear shift and noticed the lower spring was in two pieces. Autozone sold me a brake rebuild kit with a bunch of springs and one, though it's slightly thicker and stiffer than the original, actually fit the shaft, as well as when the shaft was placed in the transmission. Reading Jamal's thread viewtopic.php?f=9&t=56792 hopefully stiffer is better for the shifting.
Attachment:
shifterbrakespringmod.jpg
shifterbrakespringmod.jpg [ 72.16 KIB | Viewed 4100 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:45 pm 
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And you were probably wondering why your shifter was sloppy.

I bet it looked something like this.

Attachment:
brokenspring.jpg
brokenspring.jpg [ 50.93 KIB | Viewed 4097 times ]


So that's what takes up the slack when your in neutral
and you move the shifter left/right. Now if there's side to side play
when you're in gear, then it's worn bushings in the external
shifter linkage.

You will notice with the OE springs, there's light resistance when
moving left right to select 1-4, then additional resistance when
pushing fully right to select 5/R.
You're spring will cure the slop, but as pictured here, the 2 springs
are different rates.

Attachment:
problem.jpg
problem.jpg [ 135.97 KIB | Viewed 4097 times ]


You definately want a soft and hard spring for proper gear selection
when driving. The stiffer spring aids in gear selection and helps prevent
mis-shifts. It will give you a much better feel for shifting gears.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:11 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
And you were probably wondering why your shifter was sloppy.

I bet it looked something like this.

Attachment:
The attachment brokenspring.jpg is no longer available

.


That's exactly what my gearshift spring looked like! Must be built in 20 yr obsolescence by Suzuki. :D So all seals and races are in and starting to reassemble for real. Got to the reverse/idler gear and couldn't figure out if I was missing a piece? There is a hole in the bottom of my rev/idler gear shaft that looks like something inserts in it?
Attachment:
RevIdler-gear.jpg
RevIdler-gear.jpg [ 46.95 KIB | Viewed 4067 times ]



Is there something that inserts in this hole?

Also the FSM manual shows a different rev/idler arm than what's on my transmission.
Attachment:
REV-IdlerGear FSM7A23.jpg
REV-IdlerGear FSM7A23.jpg [ 55.25 KIB | Viewed 4067 times ]


here's what mine looks like
Attachment:
rev-idlerarmpeg.jpg
rev-idlerarmpeg.jpg [ 78.29 KIB | Viewed 4067 times ]


Was mine an 1988 updated arm from the 87?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Attachment:
reversepin.jpg
reversepin.jpg [ 114.41 KIB | Viewed 4063 times ]


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:34 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
Attachment:
The attachment reversepin.jpg is no longer available


Thanks again Jamal! I found the pin right next to where the gear was place on my dis-assembly time line board. Rereading the FSM this morning and saw the diagram was right in front of me in fig 7A-101 (just a very weird angle on the diagram), but I slept better because of your help. OK I'm at the point where I'm bringing the two case halves together and noticed I lost, or never had, one of the two larger case bushing
Attachment:
lrgCaseBushtrans.jpg
lrgCaseBushtrans.jpg [ 64.71 KIB | Viewed 4049 times ]
Attachment:
Lefthalftrancase.jpg
Lefthalftrancase.jpg [ 79.77 KIB | Viewed 4049 times ]


I searched all over my garage and could not find the second large case bushing. I was wondering what do these bushings actually do?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:08 pm 
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They're more of alignment pins than anything else.
I believe the large ones are the same diameter of
the ones on the cylinder head if that helps.
But it looks like you've got the two smaller ones
as well so that should make sure the two halves
aren't askew when bolting together.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think the larger
ones are for mating the transmission to the block.
If you had another one, maybe it's stuck in the
engine block.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:57 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
They're more of alignment pins than anything else.
I believe the large ones are the same diameter of
the ones on the cylinder head if that helps.
But it looks like you've got the two smaller ones
as well so that should make sure the two halves
aren't askew when bolting together.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think the larger
ones are for mating the transmission to the block.
If you had another one, maybe it's stuck in the
engine block.


The pins are between the right & left case 1/2s, and what I did was bought a 3/8 x 1/2" split seem steel spacer for $.80 at Ace, then filed it down to size, then expanded it to tightly fit the case hole. So they're just for alignment, well I didn't want take any chances. Put down a bead on the mating surfaces & placed left 1/2 to right 1/2 and torqued down bolts. Thanks again Jamal!
Attachment:
Assmebled trancases.jpg
Assmebled trancases.jpg [ 81.49 KIB | Viewed 4037 times ]


Hope to finish re assembly by tomorrow & wondering if there is a way to check for leaks prior to tranny installation?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:29 am 
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Sol wrote:
Hope to finish re assembly by tomorrow & wondering if there is a way to check for leaks prior to tranny installation?


Well my hopes were quashed when I hit the gear selector installation. First installed it, using ultra grey for a gasket, and I couldn't move the shaft to line up the yoke for the roll pins. Struggled but couldn't move a thing. Took it apart, cleaned off the gasket goo, removed the three detent balls & re-inserted to see if I could line up the yoke. Satisfied, I redid it, the yoke lined up and thought i was ready to go. Put in the bigger roll pin, and figured I should see if I can go through the gears, before putting in the other pin. Trying to push the shifter in and out to 1st neutral 2nd was a struggle, but doable, however twisting the shifter to go to 3rd & 4th was un doable by hand. I left it there last night. I'm thinking that maybe my lower spring mod is too strong & I need to redo the shifter with a weaker spring? Or maybe it works with the leverage of the stick shift once installed?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:42 am 
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It's really hard to do by hand.
Run a bar like a 1/4" long extension through the holes
and try it that way, then pull/push/twist through
the gears.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:16 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
It's really hard to do by hand.
Run a bar like a 1/4" long extension through the holes
and try it that way, then pull/push/twist through
the gears.

Like this here? :idea:
Attachment:
Shiftextension.jpg
Shiftextension.jpg [ 75.56 KIB | Viewed 4018 times ]

Thanks again!! I was able to shift through all the gears. Though the throw pushing in from neutral (2nd,4th & rev) was much shorter than throw puling out on the lever from neutral to 1st.3rd &4th). But it works and that was a relief!

The other thing is the way the shift lever (above w/extension) seems more cocked to one o'clock, than at 12 o'clock parallel to the bellhousing face. I 'm sure the spring I put in changed that. As long as I can get through the gears that should be OK yes?


Also wondering if the rubber gasket to the plate that covers the shifter Yoke port/hole should be replaced or sealed with ultra grey?
Attachment:
yokeport.jpg
yokeport.jpg [ 81.59 KIB | Viewed 4018 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:34 pm 
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If I had to take a guess, I would say the spring
is too long or too stiff. Could be overpowering the
other opposing spring as well causing the off center.
Seems to me it may make selecting the correct gear
difficult once everything is installed. Just an
educated guess.

Replace the o ring.
Attachment:
ORING.jpg
ORING.jpg [ 97.53 KIB | Viewed 4017 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:40 pm 
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JamalSpelling wrote:
If I had to take a guess, I would say the spring
is too long or too stiff. Could be overpowering the
other opposing spring as well causing the off center.

Attachment:
The attachment ORING.jpg is no longer available


I started to remove the yoke and gear shift lever and noticed the gear shift arm controls the range of outside shift lever limits. OK I think I may have flipped the installation of it . Here's the FSM removal pic
Attachment:
yokepeg.jpg
yokepeg.jpg [ 26.11 KIB | Viewed 4015 times ]


and here's what I did.
Attachment:
bkwds.jpg
bkwds.jpg [ 77.72 KIB | Viewed 4015 times ]


This is backwards right?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:41 pm 
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Sol wrote:

This is backwards right?

Yes it was, for some reason I thought it could only go in one way. Samart man like me just got to re-split the tranny and reverse the shift gear arm. re assembly take two. :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:08 pm 
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we do it right 'cause we do it twice. :wink: :-P :lol:

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