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 Post subject: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 378
Location: Astatula, Florida
Swapping out (5sp) transmission, would like to install new axle shaft seals. They are two different sizes. Last resort went to a transmission shop - they found new dealer stock $60 a set or whole seal kit $80. Can find some seals one line, but not the two different sizes? Are the auto the same sizes? Anyone have a source? :huh:

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: Alberta, Canada
They are different from side to side. Very common seal and easy to get at any parts supplier. I almost know the number off the top of my head but can't quite remember it. Most any counter person should be able to look it up. It's under manual transmission output seal. Same seal from 89-00, all engine options, swift, metro, sprint, firefly, 1.0, 1.3 single and twin cam. Different seal for automatic trans. Always find it so weird that stuff like this can be hard to locate. When the parts people get confused, I often just get them to hand me the seal book and I look it up. Rockauto online catalogue will also show them I'm sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:02 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:43 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Greer,South Carolina USA
national 223553 and 223535 that is what i have used.

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:06 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 756
Location: not here
codyb76 wrote:
They are different from side to side. Very common seal and easy to get at any parts supplier. I almost know the number off the top of my head but can't quite remember it. Most any counter person should be able to look it up. It's under manual transmission output seal. Same seal from 89-00, all engine options, swift, metro, sprint, firefly, 1.0, 1.3 single and twin cam. Different seal for automatic trans. Always find it so weird that stuff like this can be hard to locate. When the parts people get confused, I often just get them to hand me the seal book and I look it up. Rockauto online catalogue will also show them I'm sure.



Awesome info, thanks, that's the very first parts I'm going out to get today when the shops open up. Any tips on installing? Just soak them for 24hrs in synthetic 10w30 engine oil then beat them in with a big flat block of wood until the outer surface of the seal is flush with the outer surface of the transmission case?


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
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hotrodray1 wrote:
national 223553 and 223535 that is what i have used.


Thanks too Hotrodray. I'm going to write these numbers down and bring then to the parts store with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:28 pm
Posts: 1170
Location: So Cal, USA
Last time I ordered seals I got them from an overseas seller on Ebay for about $5 each
with free shipping and stocked up to last the next 10 years.

Just use your digital micrometer and measure your old seals, or better yet
measure the OD of the input shaft seal area to get the ID seal size and
then with the seal removed from the tranny, measure the ID of the opening
for the OD size of the seal.
Compare these measurements with the actual measurements from used seal
and be sure to search for a double lip oil seal, you will likely find many of them
available.

The problem I was having at the local parts counter was that the seals available were
an inferior design as they were only a single lip seal. I ordered a tranny rebuild kit
and when all was said and done, I messed up the last axle seal when installing
then went on the hunt for a good deal on seals and found aplenty.

I bought these for my US MK1 T3 manual transmission
NBR TC 35mm x 62mm x 8mm Metal Spring Double Lip Oil Shaft Seal
best quality seal I have found for a long time comparable to OE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230918774733?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am
Posts: 412
Location: sidney, nebraska
There is no need to soak the seals. Just drive them in and put a light film of grease on it surface befor installing the shaft.

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 378
Location: Astatula, Florida
Had run across the national numbers on another forum earlier. The inside and outside diameters seemed to be the same. The thickness was not, less that OME. I used them anyway. Have been on the road a week, everything seems OK. Have been focused on the motor and top issues. Haven't seen any drips on the driveway but haven't crawled under the car. Hoping to keep this car alive a few more years. Thanks All

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:18 am
Posts: 212
Location: Slovenia
as much as i remember bigger one is 62/35/(10 or 8) and smaller one is 52/35/(8 or 7 or 5)
i'm not 100% on thickness but i think it's 10 and 8..

i buy them in normal shop that have seals, bearings and so on.. about 3-5eur/piece..


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 756
Location: not here
aqqus wrote:
There is no need to soak the seals. Just drive them in and put a light film of grease on it surface befor installing the shaft.



O.k. thanks for letting me know. They've already been soaking in 10w30 synthetic engine oil ever since the day I made that post anyway since I did go out and buy the seals that day.

The hold up now is that I'm afraid to put it back together until I do something about the input shaft because its rusty because I took the transmission out two and half years ago and its been outside ever since though it was usually covered and I once sprayed it with WD40. I'm worried the rust will make the new clutch disc bind so I want to figure out a good way to get the rust off the input shaft before I put it back together.


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 756
Location: not here
JamalSpelling wrote:
be sure to search for a double lip oil seal, you will likely find many of them
available.


Thankyou for that information. Until I read that I never knew there was such a thing as single lip and double lip seals.


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:15 pm
Posts: 3130
Location: Brantford, Ontario, Canada
i've run(still run) national multiple times, never had issues

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 756
Location: not here
Here's the seals I was going to install that have been soaking in 10w30 synthetic engine oil since august 7, 2014 but now that I know about double and single lip I think these are only single lip and I still haven't figured out what to do about the rusty input shaft. or where to get that Suzuki super lube the FSM says to put on the input shaft or how much of it to put on.


Last edited by coasterII on Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 756
Location: not here
Here's the rusty input shaft that is the latest anomaly to be holding up the now two and a half year old clutch job.


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:16 am
Posts: 412
Location: sidney, nebraska
For that shaft use a wire brush. The small stainless steel "tooth brush" ones will work well in the small area of the bell housing. Some emery cloth will help too. If you have a dremel or similar rotary tool you can put a wire wheel in it and make short work of the rust. But why not just put the disc on there and see it will even hang up? It doesn't look that bad.

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1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed 3-door hatchback "herbie"
1990 geo metro 1.0 5 speed convertible "sportie"


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
Posts: 756
Location: not here
^ Thanks for the into aqqus, I'll try cleaning it up that way and putting it back together. I had already tried a test fit with the old clutch disc because I didn't want to mess up the new clutch disc and the old disc wouldn't even go on because its been sitting outside for two and a half years and is all crudded up. But now I'll just clean the input shaft up like you said and put it back together and see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
in lieu of the special suzuki lubricant i use a copper antisieze paste on the splines of the transmission input shaft. the clutch plate's mating splines slide better if they are lubricated.

don't use too much, a lightly brushed on amount that covers all the splines and the little nub that fits into the pilot bearing works nicely.

don't forget to use blue loctite on the bolts that hold the flywheel to the crankshaft. 45 ft/lbs on those bolts. use the blue loctite on the bolts that mount the pressure plate, too. the fsm says 45 ft/lbs for those bolts, too, but i usually tighten those with a 12" ratchet and give them another 16th of a turn to snug them up. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:58 am
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Location: not here
^ Thanks T3, I've got two bottles of that copper anti-seize. I bought the second one when I couldn't find the first one, then of course the first one turns up. I'll use that because another of my concerns was lubricant making its way off the input shaft splines and onto the clutch disc and flywheel and pressure plate but that copper anti-seize is about as far from runny as you can get without turning solid, good tip, thanks.

Thanks for the heads up on bolt torques too, I'm going to be super careful and double check everything in putting the flywheel, clutch disc and pressure plate back on, for example making sure the " to engine" side of the clutch disc is facing the engine and not the transmission, because if I screw something up I won't know it until everything is back to together, and the engine running, and I try to put it in gear and drive it. It would be a real bitch if I had to take everything apart again at that point. It would also be a real bitch to have the flywheel or something come off while I'm screaming down the freeway with the thing floored. This whole clutch job has taken so long because the guy who sold me the car just ran it into the ground without doing any maintenance or repairs since he knew he wasn't keeping it so as I've been replacing the clutch I've come across a whole lot of other stuff that needed servicing or repair or replacement. Its worth doing though because the body is rust free and solid and undamaged and I got the car real cheap and 4 door sedans with manual transmissions aren't that easy to find, most 4 door sedans are automatics.


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 Post subject: Re: Axle Shaft Seal Help
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 344
Location: vancouver island, canada
5 spd

skf
left 13998
right 13624

national
left 223552
right 223535

beck/arnley
left 052-3665
right 052-3580

and just for reference here are ther automatic seal #'s. they are same both sides

skf
13963

national
223540

beck/arnley
052-3526

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