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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:06 am 
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Location: San Diego CA
Hi there guys, I just got my 94 Suzuki swift Sedan! Ill post pictures later guys but first let me ask you transmission Gurus a question. There is an issue with my car, You can shift into all gears except 5th, the only way is to go into 4th and shift into 5th, but that's the least of my issues, I could live with that! Once in fifth you are stuck in it! I shift into neutral and car is still in 5th, and I cant shift into any gear except one, Reverse, only way to do that is at a full stop, and when you do it grinds a little, buckles and its all good and fine, it will shift into all 4 gears except 5th again! Now I did some research and I know I can access the 5th gear from the side and I will be doing so ASAP and also checking to make sure the shiftier is not somehow bent or hitting something, Still I wanted to know if anyone has experienced these symptoms and if so what was the fix? Thanks guys!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:39 am 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
5th gear is easy to get at, for sure start with that cover for inspection. It's really hard to figure out what's wrong from your description, that's not a common issue at all. My guess might be that someone did a transmission repair and forgot a check ball. When you take the cover off, you should see if you can find an exploded diagram amd try to confirm everything is correct in there. There will be a plug lookin thing with an Allen head that you should remove at the shift fork. I'm sure there should be a check ball under it. Dattman, if you see this could you confirm? I've done enough but could be wrong.
When you have cover off, get someone to shift from 5th the reverse and back while watching the shift fork(it will be easy to see what happens). In one direction you will see in engage 5th(towards you as you look at it), it will go back to neutral, then into reverse as they cycle the shifter.
Post what you find, if you must drive it, I bet using 4th in the meantime won't be bad, that car probably has a 3.52 final drive trans that will cruise nicely in 4th at highway speed.

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1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:40 am 
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Location: Palm Springs, Calif
Hi Paul
I agree with Cody.
It sounds like a problem in the tower, not the gears.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:23 am 
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The tranmission was recently rebuilt, owner told me so and i can tell by the rtv they used, its still looks fresh. And true to only driving in 4th, i have been using the same engine on my other car with the 4.39 end rario and its like having no 5th gear. Mpg were still at 28.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:18 pm 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Called it. The tricky part about that is, it's so much more awkward to confirm all the detents and balls are in the right place after the fact. Cross fingers that it's the one in the 5th gear cover, as it's easy to deal with.

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:44 pm 
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Location: Slovenia
do you have sedan with 1.3l engine and small frame box?

i guess it's problem with ball on shift fork.. and it's probably inside gearbox, not in 5th gear place..

i had similar problems, but mine problem was that only way to disengage reverse was to put it in 5th gear.. going from reverse to 1st would lock gearbox as both gears was engaged.. it was missing ball in 5th and reverse fork (it pushed idler gear up, but because of missing ball, when you changed to any of 1-2-3-4 gear, 5th and reverse fork was back in neutral but idler stayed engaged.. when going to 5th gear fork traveled farer away from reverse position so it pushed idler out..)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:30 pm 
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Location: Palm Springs, Calif
There are 3 identical bolt/caps on the top of your transmission
Image
(removed in the picture above, just below where the case is split in the center of the picture)

which hold these 3 springs:
Image
and 3 balls under those.
Although your springs are probably identical (pictured above is an MK1 tranny) the idea is the same.
One of the shafts may be missing a ball under those springs.

It is an easy check and requires little to no technical knowledge and only rudimentary hand tools.
A dental pick, a mirror and flashlight, a wrench to fit the cap, and you should be good to go.
A thin magnet would be nice, but not necessary.

If you do pull them off, clean 'em up and put some Ultra gray on the little washer prior to reseating them.

Unfortunately, if all three of those check balls are in, then you may be missing one further inside the transmission.

The old rule, "The last thing you did to it (rebuild) is what screwed it up" may apply here.
Fortunately, it's an easy fix.

As with most transmission problems, the longer you let it go, the worse it will become and the more money you will have to throw at it down the road.

If you have a Swift manual, then you'd want to be looking at
7A-27 and 7A-28 of the electronic/downloadable pdf.

Look through this section
gallery/album.php?id=5&sort_method=image_time&sort_order=DESC
starting around page 10 and you will be able to see some scans, but unfortunately, the shift shafts file may be missing.

4th gear in a 3.52 isn't all that bad, but 28 mpg is atrocious for the GA.

Do you have a thread dedicated to the car yet so we can see what has been done?
I think I'm going to go that route.
Helps keep everything organized...

:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:25 am 
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Location: San Diego CA
Papaco thanks for all the imput. Today i broke down a spare tranmission i had laying around, instructions were a little complicated but i got her done
Reason i pulled the tranmision back in march was what i thought was an imput shaft bearing, but it was actually the bearing in the back of the imput shaft close to 5th gear that blew up. Now that i have taken a tranmission apart i now have a vauge idea of what to look for. I will check the balls that you pointed out. Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:12 am 
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Location: Slovenia
i think those 3 balls under springs are just to hold "lever/shift fork/.." in gear.. if you try to shift with those springs and balls removed it will be soft and it won't stay in gear..

about my previous post, after more thinking, if your 5th gear won't disengage, there might be problem in ball that is under small cover of 5th gear part...
also once you'll get oil out, check it for that ball or other metal parts in it.. it might give you idea of what could be wrong..


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Looks like I'm late to the party :lol: I saw this on GMF a few days ago and incorrectly thought this might of been a cable shift box, we never got 1.3 rod change sedans around these parts, is an odd problem and never struck it before but I agree thats it's almost certain to be an assembly issue, either the detent balls or the 5th gear shift fork directly.

The 3 balls under the springs do provide some tension to stay in gear but more importantly provide some tension to keep each shift rod and fork in the neutral position, this is the important bit as the remaining shafts need to stay in neutral so the selected shift rod and fork can move, the mechanism is designed so only one shaft can move at one time, (reverse is not so simple to explain), I would check the 3 springs and balls first and then under the 5th gear cover, need to make sure both the roll pin and the ball under the allen cap are there on the 5th gear shift fork.

You have to drop the oil so I would use a clean container to check as Lukak mentioned, it's unlikely you'll find anything since it's probably an assembly issue but I did crack a ball once on a rwd nissan box I rebuilt and that gave me shifting issues, here's hoping yours is a simple fix.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:53 pm 
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So i noticed an oil leak coming from the tranmision, so i got under to take a look, it seemed to be coming from the case bolt, just out of curioisity i turned it by hand, and it was loose! All case bolts were hand tight! So i tightned them all and problem still persist but now the shifting is alot smoother and less grinding. :x


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:43 pm 
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:shock: ok, not good at all, also there are two case bolts inside the bell housing which you can only reach when the box is separated from the engine, hope those are tight.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:43 am 
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Also, clutch is slipping bad! Also pulsating, im guessing flywheel is warped from the slippage. i cant press more than 1/8 the pedal or it will slip. I need a new flywheel, can I use g13bb flywheel or g13b? Samurai flywheels the same?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:18 am 
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Location: Palm Springs, Calif
You may have tranny fluid on the clutch.
Hope you don't need the car because if you drive it while low on fluid, you'll screw up 5th gear.
Best to pull the trans and clean it up.

Oil drip at the weep hole on the bottom of inspection plate?

(Picture would tell the story...)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:56 am 
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Location: Slovenia
if bolts was loose, there is high chance those 2 bolts inside bell housing are loose too..

1. oil out and check it for metal parts
2. gearbox dismount, check those 2 bolts
3. check clutch and flywheel
4. take gearbox apart and check all balls and forks.. find swift gti manual pdf (sonewhere on this site) since gearboxes are the same and you have in there all you need to take gearbox apart and check for all balls.. and everything else 8)

i done all this alone in like 5-6h + gearbox back on car :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:35 am 
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Ok i will take the tranmission down, wish me luck guys.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:52 pm 
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Took it down, the two inner case bolts were missing and so the clutch slip, and i took the 5th gear cover off and found the ball guide and allen head screw to be absent. :mrgreen: im about to install it all back, wish me luck guys!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:54 pm 
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:shock: Personally I'd be stripping the whole box down in case they have forgotten something else... I'd also get the flywheel skimmed and a new clutch kit and put everything back together.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:40 pm 
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Too poor for that, i dont got money for clutch kits. By any chance is there a guide somewhere to replace the wheel bearings on a 94 suzuki swift, im guesing the sedan should be the same procedure.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:44 am 
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pvr007 wrote:
Too poor for that, i dont got money for clutch kits. By any chance is there a guide somewhere to replace the wheel bearings on a 94 suzuki swift, im guesing the sedan should be the same procedure.


Some pretty serious heavy weights have chimed in.

Work smarter, not harder.
If you are that poor, maybe you can clean it all up with Simple Green, but wow, two bolts missing?
Who touched that tranny before you?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003

Throw up a few carnage photos and spice up this thread.

Have fun, and count the ring and pinion while you're at it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:59 am 
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I really wishes I could have bought a clutch, but seriously I don't have money..... :| i used some brake cleaner, hope that the oil kept the disk cool and it did not warp on me.


So I replaced the bearing, but i did a couple things wrong now that i have done extended reading, First, I reused the outer race, in the attempt to get things done quicker I did not split it from the spindle and I reused it. Second, I hammered it in not once, but twice! And third I hammered the inner race in with a socket. So I took it around the block, And the wheel bearing started smoking, like sea foam smoke! I did apply valvoline grease all over...... I drove it back into the driveway and took a bath, 11 long hours of working on the car took a toll. In the morning I will do a failure analysis, try to take it all apart again and hopefully I did not kill the bearings, I just drove like one block.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:13 am 
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that bearing is done.. use new one.. and don't use hammer to push it in.. also never press on inner ring..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Yeah the bearing plastic case melted away, i took the old ball bearings and cleaned and greased them up and reinstalled the correct way, and now it sounds much better. I think the car was submerged in water because both bearing just need greasing. Also, looks like the leak coming from the tranmission is still going, i have to add some uv dye and check where its coming from, i think its the imput shaft seal, i would not be surprised if they forgot to install it. Its leaving a good 5oz of oil every time i park it. I am using 5w-30 engine oil on the tranmision, i was recomended 10w30 but 5w30 was all i had laying around, it should not be the cause of my significant oil leak.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:34 pm 
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if bolts was missing and you had oil leak from there, i'm not sure both parts of housing can seal properly without cleaning and new silicone..
also why u use engine oil in gearbox??? you should use 75w-90 or 80w-90..

if you want your problems gone, strip down whole gearbox and go from start.. and follow gti manuals to be sure you don't forgot anything..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:16 pm 
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If it did not seal between the case then the leak would be external of the bellhousing, im sure the leak is coming from inside, when i installed the 2 missing bolts i applied some rtv, and torqued them. I have a spare tranmision on the bench that was working perfectly, just needs a bearing. Will order a rebuild kit plus a clutch, but i cant seem to find a flywheel, does the samurai use the same one? Most of the time the resurfacing labor here in souther cali outcost the price of a new one. Ill drive the car like this. Its driveable, ill use the thicker oil in hope that it slows down the leak and throw some dye and pinpoint the source. I want to thank all of you guys! Ill keep you updated.


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