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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:07 am 
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Location: Singapore
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this is mine which i had a suzukisports LSD fitted into it....the syncro hub was broken into 2 pieces and so is the selector forks...all the ball bearings were out and there were BIG metal shavings in the LSD itself...thankfully the LSD wasnt affected...all these were caused by improper installation of the LSD...oh yea...the bell housing was cracked as well...but no matter...as i got the gearbox dirt cheap :lol: :lol: just that i didnt listen to the owners advice of overhauling it....


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:13 pm 
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IceRacer wrote:
This is my NSD.

NSD you ask?....

LSD = Limited Slip Diff...
NSD = NO Slip Diff :)

Image



Yeesh, that's a harsh weld job on a diff. However, it's good to see that it at least resembles a regular carrier/spider/sidegear set up that I CAN weld..

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:05 am 
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This is a picture of the roll pin holding the cross shaft into the differential housing:

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I wonder if I was about to have a failure just like the one at the beginning of this thread?

The transmission was torn down to replace the input shaft bearing at the 5th gear end, and I decided to take everything apart to clean out the metal flakes from the bearing balls. I might not have noticed the pin if I hadn't decided to tear down the differential.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Kinslayer wrote:
IceRacer wrote:
This is my NSD.

NSD you ask?....

LSD = Limited Slip Diff...
NSD = NO Slip Diff :)

Image



Yeesh, that's a harsh weld job on a diff. However, it's good to see that it at least resembles a regular carrier/spider/sidegear set up that I CAN weld..


I had a problem with my GTi's diff where in the diff's pinion shaft was always missing, and my diff, box and countershaft were almost always destroyed.

I was informed that the pinion shaft can be welded in place, i suppose that's what i'm seeing above, however, i was advised against doing so by one person, who explained that it causes the diff to behave like a LSD, and the car's behaviour during cornering would be a bit different.

Is there any truth to that statement ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:03 pm 
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yeah, that car wont turn, itll either break axles, constantly squeel tires, or just break the welds or the transmission all together.

it wont behave like an lsd, itll behave like a NSD =)

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:56 pm 
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Stanno wrote:
I was informed that the pinion shaft can be welded in place, i suppose that's what i'm seeing above, however, i was advised against doing so by one person, who explained that it causes the diff to behave like a LSD, and the car's behaviour during cornering would be a bit different.

Is there any truth to that statement ?


You can weld the pinion shaft into place - or - you can weld the diff itself together, which is what you see here.

The pinion shaft is a steel pin about ½" in diameter and maybe 4" long - it passes through the diff carrier and the diff pinions rotate on it, it is normally held in place by a roll pin which has a nasty way of breaking and allowing the pin to move - you weld the pin in place to prevent this movement.

Welding the diff itself together prevents the side pinions from rotating independently - which prevents differential action from occuring - and yes that can lead to all sorts of undesirable side effects.

On a front wheel drive car - you can expect very heavy steering, the steering snatching itself free of your grip if you nail the throttle in mid turn, broken drive shafts, broken transmission housings & excessive tire wear to name a few.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:23 pm 
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fordem wrote:
Stanno wrote:
I was informed that the pinion shaft can be welded in place, i suppose that's what i'm seeing above, however, i was advised against doing so by one person, who explained that it causes the diff to behave like a LSD, and the car's behaviour during cornering would be a bit different.

Is there any truth to that statement ?


You can weld the pinion shaft into place - or - you can weld the diff itself together, which is what you see here.

The pinion shaft is a steel pin about ½" in diameter and maybe 4" long - it passes through the diff carrier and the diff pinions rotate on it, it is normally held in place by a roll pin which has a nasty way of breaking and allowing the pin to move - you weld the pin in place to prevent this movement.

Welding the diff itself together prevents the side pinions from rotating independently - which prevents differential action from occuring - and yes that can lead to all sorts of undesirable side effects.

On a front wheel drive car - you can expect very heavy steering, the steering snatching itself free of your grip if you nail the throttle in mid turn, broken drive shafts, broken transmission housings & excessive tire wear to name a few.


So welding the pinion shaft pin in place will eliminate the possiblity of the shaft itself moving out of place, so is it safe to say i shouldnt see any of the 'NSD' side effects if that is done?

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:58 pm 
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Stanno wrote:
So welding the pinion shaft pin in place will eliminate the possiblity of the shaft itself moving out of place, so is it safe to say i shouldnt see any of the 'NSD' side effects if that is done?


Yup.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:32 pm 
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2 transmissions in 3 days, the first one :

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I have some sticky tires and wanted to test my launch control on the megasquirt. that was the result.


3 days later we went to the drag strip, I put on a pair of drag slicks to eliminate wheel hop. I stage, wait for the lights, then...
Image
Image

i'm not putting any more non-GT trannies in my car :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:01 pm 
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Off topic - but - you put on drag slicks to eliminate wheel hop?

Not going to work, my friend, not going to work - the wheel hop is caused by the "wind up" in the drive train. The rubber engine mounts twist until they can't twist any more and then when the tires break loose, they "untwist" and the resulting loss of drive allows the tires to grip and the process repeats causing massive shock loading on the transmission which - well you've seen the results.

Drag slicks will actually make it worse.

What you need to do is either fill the voids in the engine mounts with polyurethane or replace the entire rubber section with polyurethane.

Now - I could be wrong - but the GT/GTi differentials are bigger & stronger than the "non GT/GTi" diffs, but I think the output or countershaft gears - the other gear that you destroyed - are pretty much the same material & strength.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:47 am 
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Location: Kitchener, ON
fordem wrote:
... the wheel hop is caused by the "wind up" in the drive train. The rubber engine mounts twist until they can't twist any more and then when the tires break loose, they "untwist" and the resulting loss of drive allows the tires to grip and the process repeats causing massive shock loading on the transmission which - well you've seen the results.

Also the big bushings in the front control arms account for a big part of this, probably even more so than the engine/tranny mounts.

fordem wrote:
Drag slicks will actually make it worse. What you need to do is either fill the voids in the engine mounts with polyurethane or replace the entire rubber section with polyurethane.

Yep, and same with the control arm bushing. Fill it or swap it.

fordem wrote:
Now - I could be wrong - but the GT/GTi differentials are bigger & stronger than the "non GT/GTi" diffs, but I think the output or countershaft gears - the other gear that you destroyed - are pretty much the same material & strength.

I agree with this as well.

Instead of a megasquirt and slicks, you should be stiffening up the bushings and getting a new (limited slip) diff.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Martinq;

Could you elaborate on what u mean by filling the control arm bushings.

Unlike the engine/tranny mounts, there are no open spaces in the bushing to fill with urethane AKAIK.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:18 pm 
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You're not serious - right?

Get under that car and remove one of the control arms and then tell me that there are no voids in the bushing that holds the rear end of it to the chassis rail.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:08 pm 
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I'll be doing mine soon enough and will try to take and post pictures then. Anyone have pics?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:53 pm 
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Rather than further derail the topic - you can find the pictures of the control arm bushes in their own thread - [url=http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38946]here[/url

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:36 pm 
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Location: Winston Salem N C
CJDave this is about the first page of this post IE, bendertiger ie, the kid who was selling his mother his car on the first page of this post and ALL of the other people who can not talk without using curse words. My 12th grade teacher taught me that only people who do not have brains or education enough to think of any other words use curse words to express their thoughts. my thinking is this----THERE IS DESPERATE NEED for better language on this site from some people here. If I had ever said such things to or about my mother I would not have (walked, mouth washed with soap, insert the worst thing you can imagine) and my father would have administered the punishment if she could not have done so, EVEN AFTER I WAS GROWN. I know you are not saying this directly to her, but to me it shows that you have NO respect for YOURSELF or any other person. That said have a nice day. Now please everyone on here PLEASE show that you have education enough to be able to use something besides curse words.


Last edited by 95basemetro on Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Um. Wrong thread? I don't see anything disrespectful here...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:41 pm 
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Reading this thread has put some fear into me about the strength and reliability of my GTi tranny (5spd). I currently have it apart for a clutch replacement, although I have no need to go into it any further. I want to know, do I need to pay particular attention to anything before I put her back together. I am using the Exedy clutch kit that came with a pilot bearing as well as th rest of the kit.

Since this is my first go around with replacing a clutch ever, what am I going to be looking for so that it doesn't explode or start grinding after the first 5 miles?

Any experience or reply would help ease the fears of this "weak"? tranny.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:14 pm 
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95basemetro wrote:
CJDave this is about the first page of this post IE, bendertiger ie, the kid who was selling his mother his car on the first page of this post and ALL of the other people who can not talk without using curse words.


Wow. That was how many years ago? What's the point of bringing that up? It has nothing to do with what the thread is about.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Y'all are scaring the crap outta me here too! Just got my first Gti ever and though the PO replaced the gearbox w/ a rebuilt one 22K ago, it is grinding for a split second before you can downshift into second. (I have the first gearbox which he said couldn't get into fourth.)

I've been practicing my double clutching, and avoiding downshifting into second whenever I can. Is there any other prevention I can do?

I am not a crazy driver off the line and usually and don't spin the tires unless by accident, but do like to hear that engine sing as I get up to speed.

Might be really hard to find a replacement trans for a GTi in New England. So I wanna keep this one around as long as possible. Is there a stronger gear box swap that can be done?

Fisch

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Get the synchromesh fluid that everyone sings praise about. That's all you can do short of rebuilding the box.

There is no convenient stronger option. Not without either hunting overseas or stuffing on a G16 transmission.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:07 am 
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CJDavE wrote:
There is no convenient stronger option. Not without either hunting overseas or stuffing on a G16 transmission.


Some swear by some don't. What's the best? Isn't it difficult to put in or does it bolt right up? Those are found in the Esteem correct?

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clinty wrote:
Us swift people are a rare breed.

pacapo wrote:
You get an old one, clean it up, put it back to specs and take care of it, and she'll last for years.

JVS wrote:
We (the Suzuki enthusiast) are Dinosaurs.

An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

1989 Suzuki Swift GTi: Red "My PocketRocket"
1989 Suzuki Swift GTi: White (Being resurrected)
1996 Geo Metro (Stocker)
1999 Suzuki 1.6 Esteem (Baleno) Wagon (Sleeper creeper)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:57 am 
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Neither are simple. The G16 tranny doesn't bolt directly on, but apparently it's close. Do some searching around in this part of the forum, your answers are in here (I just don't remember where). :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:40 pm 
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the tranny carnage in this thread should have an x rating for unimaginable horror. :twisted:

the thing that scares me most is that there are actually people whose driving skills apparently seem so stunted that all they manage is tromping the gas pedal to the floor and side stepping the clutch.

i grew up driving european sports cars and pretty much had the difference between those and a purpose built drag car down pat. learning the art of using the clutch to couple power to the road in an effective manner is a process best accomplished by slaps to the head every time you piss up. the next best method is making you replace transmissions every time you break one. :lol:

in the past 5 years that i've been abusing metros i have never managed to smoke a transmission (i did twist the crap out of a driver's side axle on the twincam vert. :-P )

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:46 pm 
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fordem wrote:
Off topic - but - you put on drag slicks to eliminate wheel hop?
Drag slicks will actually make it worse.

not in my case, simply because they don't break loose, hey it's a 3 banger, it's probably making +- 120hp not more.

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