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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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Have you fallen for a fuel economy gimmic?
Yes 11%  11%  [ 19 ]
No 71%  71%  [ 125 ]
I ask the forum before I spend ANY money 6%  6%  [ 10 ]
I search the net to make sure it really is too good to be true. 12%  12%  [ 21 ]
Total votes : 175
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:05 pm 
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Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Never buy the following, they are ALL SCAMS!!!!

Electric turbo/superchargers

Fuel Magnets

"hydrogen generators" The e-bay units. I can't believe people buy these things, they are paying over 100 dollars!!!

Tornado/spiralmax
The things that go in the intake tube to "spiral/tornado" the air...

Please make me a stickey!!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:07 pm 
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Fuel additives/octane boosters are a scam too....

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:12 am 
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Octane boosters will enhance performance provided you advance your timing or increase boost. Vehicles with knock sensors will automatically adjust their performance when higher octane fuel is used.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:22 am 
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Lihtan wrote:
Octane boosters will enhance performance provided you advance your timing or increase boost. Vehicles with knock sensors will automatically adjust their performance when higher octane fuel is used.


Uhhh, no they won't...

Okokokokok, so the old school "TETRAETHYL LEAD" boosters work....

STP type of boosters don't work...
NOTHING is free...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:21 am 
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i did try one fuel injection cleaner with fuel additives once and i did save about 5%... only working durning you add it into your gas tank.

its not worth anyway. ( i need fuel injection jets to be cleaned)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:05 am 
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V8's
I don't care what people say, they SUCK at Gas Mileage!!!!!! =)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:00 am 
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The only MPG gimick that I have fallen for was the acetone in the fuel tank. I am not sure if it is really a gimick. I did notice a change in the cars peformance and how it started but there was no increase in the MPG that I could see. I know some people did notice a gain.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:19 pm 
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Nowhere wrote:
Never buy the following, they are ALL SCAMS!!!!

Electric turbo/superchargers

Fuel Magnets

"hydrogen generators" The e-bay units. I can't believe people buy these things, they are paying over 100 dollars!!!

Tornado/spiralmax
The things that go in the intake tube to "spiral/tornado" the air...


Dude you are so right about the Electric turbo/superchargers.
Unless you are talking about an e-Ram. That's 1000 CFM's pushing down those tubes. Do you know what 1000 CFM will do for your lill engine?

Dude, you are so wrong about the fuel line magnets. This has been tested on a stationary generator with a fixed load and before/after results obtained. This is science. This is research.
This is how its done in the real world.
See the results below. They speak for themselves.

Good question, John. My Allan 5 gas analyzer gives me the AFR reading.

--- In supercarbs@y..., ibeme@m... wrote:
Uli,

This is a great post - a good objective repeatable test.
Guess that seals it for me - I've been toying with the idea
of getting a generator to play with, and just had not done
it.

Thanks for the well thought out experiment and good post.

One question however - what are you using to measure air-
fuel ratios into the 21/1 range? Most O2 sensors are not
good outside a narrow band around 14.7/1.

John

--- In supercarbs@y..., uli.xxxxxx@u... wrote:
Since I already have an engine setup for testing, I decided to
give the fuel magnet a go. Here are the results:

Test engine: Yamaha 173cc OHV four stroke engine with 2.4kw Alternator
Fuel delivery system: Vortex 618 vaporizer
Fuel: Unleaded petrol
ambient temp: 19.5 deg C
Rel. humidity: 80%
Test procedure: For each test, the engine was run with an
identical load and an identical amount of fuel. The first two runs were
done without magnets. Each run was than timed until the engine stopped
on its own. After that, 2off 70x50x25mm ferrite magnets where
strapped to either side of the rubber fuel line, with opposing poles
towards each other, about 250mm away from the float chamber of the fuel processor. Another two runs where timed under those conditions also.
For the first two runs, the time was 23 min 30sec each. The first run
with magnets was 28 min 30sec and the second one just over 27 min.
After that another run was done for verification, on which the engine
showed signs of running rich. The AFR was adjusted and a further test run performed. This time the engine went for 36 min. The AFR was measured as being 21.5/1.
When the magnets where removed, with the engine still running, the HC
reading went up immediately from 41ppm to 66 ppm. Something is going on there for sure.
I will have to further reconfirm those results, but it appears that
the magnets change the burn characteristic of the fuel to such an extent that a leaner mixture setting becomes necessary in order to
gain maximum benefits from them. The last run represents an improvement of over 50% over the first one without magnets. This is substantial. If you have fuel injection, you might want to run an EFIE together with the magnets or for a carby, maybe try smaller jets.

Uli Xxxxxx


Dude, yes and no on the hydroxiginators. Yes, in that there are plenty of scammers out there in this energy cult marketplace. No, in that not all electrolysers themselves are a scam or the results thereof. The tech on them is advancing everyday. People are learning to make them more and more efficient every day.

Dude, you are so right about the Tornado/spiralmax air restrictors.
Right ON dude!!

Sam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:49 pm 
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Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
OOOh, the
"CHIPS/MODULES" avaliable on e-bay are also a scam. The ones that claim 20hp increases, nonsence... They modify the reading the ECU receives from the ambient tempeture sensor, adding some fuel. That's the WRONG way to get more power...

A REAL/CORRECT chip would be something like "Tom's Chip", the ones found here. These are REPROGRAMED chips that are installed INSIDE the ECU/Computer.. Ignition maps and fuel maps are modified.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:26 pm 
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Nowhere wrote:
OOOh, the
"CHIPS/MODULES" avaliable on e-bay are also a scam. The ones that claim 20hp increases, nonsence... They modify the reading the ECU receives from the ambient tempeture sensor, adding some fuel. That's the WRONG way to get more power...



A REAL/CORRECT chip would be something like "Tom's Chip", the ones found here. These are REPROGRAMED chips that are installed INSIDE the ECU/Computer.. Ignition maps and fuel maps are modified.



This is true, the resister type modules do nothing for you at all.
It doesn't matter if it has a variable potentiometer or not.

Reprogramed chips are the way to go, I agree 100%.
Check out this neat system that turns your gameboy into a tuning tool.

http://www.turboxs.com/

That's some serious business...

Sam

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"Less IS more!"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:10 pm 
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Posts: 1537
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
i wonder have you heard or tried "powerchip" at [ http://www.powerchipgroup.com/choices.a ... roup%2Ecom ] to imrpove hp/torque and save more gas?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:11 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
edit: sorry i forget to add something...

is it working or better than buy aftermarket ecu ( which i don't know if they improved gas or whatever)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:44 pm 
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Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
CMA wrote:
i wonder have you heard or tried "powerchip" at [ http://www.powerchipgroup.com/choices.a ... roup%2Ecom ] to imrpove hp/torque and save more gas?


Quote from them:
Your Nissan 300ZX 3.0 V6 Twin Turbo utilizes a plug-in plug-out chip (EPROM). Fitting is simple and the Powerchip can be installed in about 30 minutes with basic skills and equipment. To install the upgrade software, simply locate the computer and un-plug the standard chip. Place the Powerchip performance chip into the socket and insert fully. Then, close the computer, re-install into the vehicle and start the engine to fully complete the installation process.


Looks like they are a legit EPROM burning/chipping company, not a knock off temp sensor mod...

They don't make anything for suzuki though....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:11 am 
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Posts: 1537
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
i see

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/interact/ ... id=Suz0004

try austrialla.. i don't know what different between aus and na

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:29 pm 
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Location: Oregon
Kento87 wrote:
V8's
I don't care what people say, they SUCK at Gas Mileage!!!!!! =)


LOL


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:36 am 
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Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Found another one
"Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer"
Found here:
http://www.eagle-research.com
:ez_lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:54 am 
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I was just looking at that device recently. It claims to work by modifying the voltage the ECU sees from the O2 sensor. Leaning out your fuel mixture may save some fuel, but your NOx emissions will go up. In a worse-case scenario you may damage your engine from knocking or melt a piston.

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...can you inlighten me about lihtan's
( miracle pour hole)
maybe a picture Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:08 am 
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Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Lihtan wrote:
I was just looking at that device recently. It claims to work by modifying the voltage the ECU sees from the O2 sensor. Leaning out your fuel mixture may save some fuel, but your NOx emissions will go up. In a worse-case scenario you may damage your engine from knocking or melt a piston.

:cheers: Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:16 am 
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Lihtan wrote:
I was just looking at that device recently. It claims to work by modifying the voltage the ECU sees from the O2 sensor. Leaning out your fuel mixture may save some fuel, but your NOx emissions will go up. In a worse-case scenario you may damage your engine from knocking or melt a piston.


This is one thing that I use. The claims are true. It does exactly as described.
I've used it for several years with absolutely no problems.

My NOx does not go up because of the other stuff I am doing to the engine.
Everything, HC's, NOx...you name it are down as a result.

This is the best $50 I ever spent.

Sam

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"Less IS more!"


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 Post subject: Wiseman's EFIE
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:32 am 
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Instead of posting what it "may do", why don't you try one and see what it DOES do???

If you've never put one between your ECU and O2 sensor, then any comments made here about it are a moot point.

Do programmable engine management systems work?
Would you like to be in control?
Think about it...

Experience it, then come back here and post what it does.

Sam

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"In fuel economy, there is no replacement for less displacement"

"Less IS more!"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:27 am 
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I like to know what something does before I go slapping it on my car. Both good and bad. Products like air flow controllers, nitrous and turbo kits all have warnings that if you mess with them beyond the boundaries of your knowledge, you may damage or destroy your engine. Despite these warnings, people still manage to destroy their engines using "safe" products. This O2 sensor voltage modifier has no such warning. Now don't get me wrong. The theory itself is valid. There's a number of ways you can fool the ECU to change to a different location on the fuel map. Airflow converters like the Apexi SAFC modify the signal from the MAF/MAP sensor. The T3 guys like tinkering with the output from the coolant temperature sensor. The O2 sensor is just as valid as an input. All of the above can also damage your engine if you don't know what you're doing. However, so far, I've been the only voice of reason to examine possible negatives from this device's installation. Selling a bolt on, one step "fuel saver" that neglects to mention that knowledge of engine tuning is required is irresponsible. Myself, I would only ever install a device like this if I had a secondary wideband O2 sensor to tell me what the real air/fuel mixture is. Narrow band O2 sensor are notoriously inaccurate for tuning an engine with. If that's your only source of data, and you're also deliberately tinkering with it's readings, you'd have better luck groping in dark.

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maybe a picture Thanks


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 Post subject: EFIE
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:15 pm 
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I agree with you totally. If you don't know what is going on, it is best to leave well enough alone. I can only describe what I have done and how I've done it to the best of my ability. I have 5 years experience with the EFIE, so I feel safe and secure myself. I know others who can say the same.

I took big risks with my little $200 XFi and I'm glad I did. It's paid off.
Buying the EFIE manual beforehand is a safe bet though. I doubt you could damage anything buy reading about it. If you are up on your electronics skills, the circuit diagram is there in the manual as well.

Sam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:26 pm 
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Lihtan wrote:
I like to know what something does before I go slapping it on my car. Both good and bad.

:clap:

Quote:
Instead of posting what it "may do", why don't youtry ( :roll: )one and see what it DOES do???

C'mon, gimme your money!, just buy it, no really gimme gimme gimme!!!!!!!!! :stfu:

Are you also involved in quixtar/amway? Do you have prepaid legal services? :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:39 pm 
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Or... you could just be satisfied with what you are getting at the present.

Actually, this stuff is in the public domain.
As in FREE.

:shock:

But if you aren't down on your circuits, then ya gotta pay da Moanaye
if you want to play.
Wiseman has a "no patent" philosophy on the things he creates. He puts them in public domain to prevent anyone else from patenting them.

But, you would have known that if you looked into it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:05 pm 
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Lihtan wrote:
I like to know what something does before I go slapping it on my car. Both good and bad. Products like air flow controllers, nitrous and turbo kits all have warnings that if you mess with them beyond the boundaries of your knowledge, you may damage or destroy your engine. Despite these warnings, people still manage to destroy their engines using "safe" products. This O2 sensor voltage modifier has no such warning. Now don't get me wrong. The theory itself is valid. There's a number of ways you can fool the ECU to change to a different location on the fuel map. Airflow converters like the Apexi SAFC modify the signal from the MAF/MAP sensor. The T3 guys like tinkering with the output from the coolant temperature sensor. The O2 sensor is just as valid as an input. All of the above can also damage your engine if you don't know what you're doing. However, so far, I've been the only voice of reason to examine possible negatives from this device's installation. Selling a bolt on, one step "fuel saver" that neglects to mention that knowledge of engine tuning is required is irresponsible. Myself, I would only ever install a device like this if I had a secondary wideband O2 sensor to tell me what the real air/fuel mixture is. Narrow band O2 sensor are notoriously inaccurate for tuning an engine with. If that's your only source of data, and you're also deliberately tinkering with it's readings, you'd have better luck groping in dark.


It's fairly safe to add this because the oxygen sensor is only really used at light throttle / closed loop operation.

When the car is running closed loop it purposely cycles between rich and lean because that's the way the oxygen sensor and cat work best. You end up with an average that is stoichiometric. If you shift the voltage of the oxygen sensor you can end up with an average that is a little rich or a little lean depending on your settings. It will probably save you a few MPG but it might also cause your cat to wear out a few thousand miles early. (not a really big deal)

ed


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