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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:34 am
Posts: 47
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
what would be the best coolant temp reading for mileage? If a single resistor was put in place of coolant temp sensor would the check engine light eventually come on?would driveability suck? coolant fan controlled by other switch? variable resistor worth the effort? got any thoughts? :?:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:52 am 
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Posts: 290
Location: Utah
The best would probably be stock.
Altering the signal warmer might lean out the mixture, but it would be hard starting, you would probably start to lose power(so you need more throttle), potentially even misfiring. This would probably only affect your acceleration as well because in steady state driving, you're in closed loop mode so the O2 sensor will dictate fuel adjustments to keep you at 14.7:1 AFR. If you're worried about the fuel used during acceleration, don't step on the gas so hard.
I'm not a big fan of "lying" to the ECU, it usually causes more problems than it solves. The proper way to do this is to alter the tables in the ECU and do some proper tuning.


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 Post subject: coolant mod
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:34 am
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Location: Lincoln Nebraska
i was thinking more on the lines of leaning out the car a small percentage with a set resistor and a switch on the highway. i have access to several scan tools. so i can monitor everthing including fuel adaptives. may have to record fuel trim myself and try a different value. obd 1 fuel curve is by far not perfect. at the moment i can't afford aftermarket software or i would go that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Location: Lincoln,NE
Dodge tech in a Geo world... Maybe you should try a dodge forum? :lol:


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 Post subject: LIFT KIT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:45 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:34 am
Posts: 47
Location: Lincoln Nebraska
JUST CHECKING ON THE STATUS OF THE LIFT KIT FOR THE METRO :lol: :lol: :lol:


WHOOPS WRONG AREA FOR THAT . jeep thing i dont understand.


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 Post subject: Re: LIFT KIT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Lincoln,NE
slow go wrote:
JUST CHECKING ON THE STATUS OF THE LIFT KIT FOR THE METRO :lol: :lol: :lol:


WHOOPS WRONG AREA FOR THAT . jeep thing i dont understand.


Yeah its going great. Hoping a lift kit will improve the 28 MPG that I'm getting. I think everyone with these cars just lies though their teeth about the MPG they get. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:38 am 
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Location: West Virginia
The coolant temp mod discussed in this forum somewhere can help a little bit with how the car warms up but I haven't tried it myself.

Putting a resistor in place of the IAT has been done on a lot of different cars to make the computer run rich or lean depending on what the owner of the car wants. The only problem with the metro computer is if IAT reads high like there is really hot air coming into the engine it retards the timing and that doesn't help your mileage at all.

The easiest way to lean the car out slightly is to get a LC-1 and have it simulate a narrowband oxygen sensor with lambda at something other than 14.7:1. Doing this is not cheap though since the LC-1 is $200 or so and the improvement in mileage really isn't going to be big enough to pay for the cost of it.

If you are only getting 28mpg there has to be something wrong with your car. Give us some details about the car: year, engine, trans, how many miles it has, and how it is driven so we can help you figure out what it is doing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:56 pm 
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abby normal
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Posts: 1835
Location: NorCal, USA
Quote:
Yeah its going great. Hoping a lift kit will improve the 28 MPG that I'm getting. I think everyone with these cars just lies though their teeth about the MPG they get.


On a 1.0 litre car, the ECT sensor is critical. The TBI coolant passages and hoses become clogged
and do not circulate coolant. The result is the ECM thinks the car is cold and richens the mixture.
Also partially block the radatior opening to keep the engine warm during the fine warm winter weather in nebraska :lol:

Does the car have a high idle speed also?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Lincoln,NE
I had previously had a high idle that was solved with a new idle solenoid, now the car runs at a low enough RPM that when it is in gear and I let my foot off the brake the car just barley creeps forward when before with the bad solenoid it would take off.

OK,

The engine was fully rebuilt with all new parts:
Valves
Pistons (.20 over)
all bearings
cap/rotor/wires/NGK plugs
oil pump
water pump
t-belt/pulley
195* t-stat (temp gauge reads just above half after warm up)

Installed a 4 wire (heated) O2 sensor after my 2nd tank of (26 MPG) fuel with no change to MPG.

Changed the coolant temp sensor in the throttle body at the same time as the O2 sensor.

I did the somender singh groove in the head (single groove)
Image

All EGR passages were cleaned (the intake was clogged solid) and new PCV valve installed.

I had some high idle issues that I already talked about but they have been taken care of and we have verified no vacuum leaks since then.


My daily drive is as follows:

Start car in morning for a 3-5 min warm up.
drive half block, come to a stop.
Right turn and accerate to 35 MPH and drive for 2 miles.
Come to a stop at a light, left turn then immidiate right and merge onto freeway accelerate to 55 MPH for 6 miles.
Exit freeway and come to a stop, right turn and 1/2 mile to my parking stall at work.
Ruturn trip is just the same minus the stop light.

Any ideas? :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:23 am
Posts: 1722
Location: Washington, DC
Sounds as if you have an automatic, 35 mpg is the best you can expect. You warm the car up for 5 minutes for an 8 mile commute? 28 mpg sounds reasonable. Warmup should be 30 seconds or so and try getting it out on the road once in a while, you may find that your mileage isn't too bad.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Lincoln,NE
Woodie wrote:
Sounds as if you have an automatic, 35 mpg is the best you can expect. You warm the car up for 5 minutes for an 8 mile commute? 28 mpg sounds reasonable. Warmup should be 30 seconds or so and try getting it out on the road once in a while, you may find that your mileage isn't too bad.


Well as cold as it has been a 30 second warm up would result in me dying from not being able to see out of the windshield and crashing into a tree. :lol:

I guess I'll grin and bear it and hope for better milage with warmer weather.

I guess I should have kept my neon that got the same milege and was actually comfy to drive. I got sucked in by the 40+ MPG claims, there is (or just was) a car on E-bay that was identical to mine (92 4 door with an auto) that said it regularly "gets 43 MPG".... Who knows. :?:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:34 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
hell, my turbo motor that had 438000 on it that I bagged everywhere and turned up the boost on, got me 23mpg

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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 Post subject: Re: LIFT KIT
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Suzuki Elder
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11657
Location: columbus, ohio
GeoMoParMan wrote:
Yeah its going great. Hoping a lift kit will improve the 28 MPG that I'm getting. I think everyone with these cars just lies though their teeth about the MPG they get. :roll:


it has been between 7 and 21 degrees f here and i noticed a drop in my economy this past week. i logged 133 miles and pumped 3 gallons of gas. that's something on the order of 44 mpg.

driving in slush and ice, that's about what i'd expect. i usually get 50 mpg with the 98 3 banger with a 4.10:1 manual. 35 mpg with an automatic would be about right if you didn't drive over 55 mph. 65 mph with a 3 banger auto would kill your mileage.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:46 pm
Posts: 1099
Location: Abbotsford, BC
GeoMoParMan wrote:
I had previously had a high idle that was solved with a new idle solenoid, now the car runs at a low enough RPM that when it is in gear and I let my foot off the brake the car just barley creeps forward when before with the bad solenoid it would take off.

OK,

The engine was fully rebuilt with all new parts:
Valves
Pistons (.20 over)
all bearings
cap/rotor/wires/NGK plugs
oil pump
water pump
t-belt/pulley
195* t-stat (temp gauge reads just above half after warm up)

Installed a 4 wire (heated) O2 sensor after my 2nd tank of (26 MPG) fuel with no change to MPG.

Changed the coolant temp sensor in the throttle body at the same time as the O2 sensor.

I did the somender singh groove in the head (single groove)
Image

All EGR passages were cleaned (the intake was clogged solid) and new PCV valve installed.

I had some high idle issues that I already talked about but they have been taken care of and we have verified no vacuum leaks since then.


My daily drive is as follows:

Start car in morning for a 3-5 min warm up.
drive half block, come to a stop.
Right turn and accerate to 35 MPH and drive for 2 miles.
Come to a stop at a light, left turn then immidiate right and merge onto freeway accelerate to 55 MPH for 6 miles.
Exit freeway and come to a stop, right turn and 1/2 mile to my parking stall at work.
Ruturn trip is just the same minus the stop light.

Any ideas? :D


Hey, since you cleaned out the EGR intake, can you write a guide on how to do this ? I followed the guide on cleaning the EGR exhaust (images helped lots) but I ended up finding out it was pretty clean, and I still get the code 51 for EGR check engine light. I want to clean the intake passage but don't know how. I have a 4 cyl 95.

_________________
1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Lincoln,NE
1995Firefly4dr wrote:
Hey, since you cleaned out the EGR intake, can you write a guide on how to do this ? I followed the guide on cleaning the EGR exhaust (images helped lots) but I ended up finding out it was pretty clean, and I still get the code 51 for EGR check engine light. I want to clean the intake passage but don't know how. I have a 4 cyl 95.


Well I don't think I can be of much help because my engine was fully disassembled when I cleaned everything. The passage in the head was %100 plugged and that got cleaned out in the hot tank at the machine shop. The intake was also pluged and it was a pain in the rear to get it cleaned out, I don't think I could have done it on the car it was so bad.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:46 pm
Posts: 1099
Location: Abbotsford, BC
GeoMoParMan wrote:
1995Firefly4dr wrote:
Hey, since you cleaned out the EGR intake, can you write a guide on how to do this ? I followed the guide on cleaning the EGR exhaust (images helped lots) but I ended up finding out it was pretty clean, and I still get the code 51 for EGR check engine light. I want to clean the intake passage but don't know how. I have a 4 cyl 95.


Well I don't think I can be of much help because my engine was fully disassembled when I cleaned everything. The passage in the head was %100 plugged and that got cleaned out in the hot tank at the machine shop. The intake was also pluged and it was a pain in the rear to get it cleaned out, I don't think I could have done it on the car it was so bad.


General question does anyone in the forums can point me to a guide with pictures on how to clean out, or at least inspect the intake EGR passage ? I've done a super good clean out of the EGR exhaust passage which was not blocked, but normal amount of build up.

_________________
1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:52 am
Posts: 228
Location: Fort Atkinson WI
1995Firefly4dr wrote:
GeoMoParMan wrote:
1995Firefly4dr wrote:
Hey, since you cleaned out the EGR intake, can you write a guide on how to do this ? I followed the guide on cleaning the EGR exhaust (images helped lots) but I ended up finding out it was pretty clean, and I still get the code 51 for EGR check engine light. I want to clean the intake passage but don't know how. I have a 4 cyl 95.


Well I don't think I can be of much help because my engine was fully disassembled when I cleaned everything. The passage in the head was %100 plugged and that got cleaned out in the hot tank at the machine shop. The intake was also pluged and it was a pain in the rear to get it cleaned out, I don't think I could have done it on the car it was so bad.


General question does anyone in the forums can point me to a guide with pictures on how to clean out, or at least inspect the intake EGR passage ? I've done a super good clean out of the EGR exhaust passage which was not blocked, but normal amount of build up.


Are you sure your egr ports are plugged? Check all the hoses for blockage. I found a line on my car plugged with crap. I also found my egr modulator valve plumbed in backwards. After reversing the plumbing it has not been a problem.

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Just when I thought I was about to get back on my own 2 feet life kicked me in the shorts.

94 GEO METRO PARTS FOR SALE EVERYTHING MUST GO!!!!
94 XFI rust bucket
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