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Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
in my 91 Mtero
99 miles on 1.63 gal is 60.7mpg :D
was combined fwy and stop lights. under 2500 rpm. under 57mph
some coasting, light touch on acceleration :)
over 200 pounds on board :(
roof rack :(
2/3rds of the air intake in the bumper is blocked off (no change in TEMP) :)
10W30 cheap oil. :(
8 degrees timing advance, 87 octane
185/70R14 Doral tires at MAX pressure (51psi)
There is some rubbing in turns with the 16 yr old springs and shocks. :D
(The speedometer/odometer is 15% low.)

i was getting 52mpg. Roughly:
new tire dia added 12% -- 6mpg
3 degrees timing advance added 3mpg

i said i 'd stop at 60, but i can get 65. LOL. i am hooked !

i put the bigger tires on the front as a test. because the rear tires are smaller, the rear is at least 1" lower than front. it is obvious that front is higher. i can buy 2 tires for the rear -- if they fit!!!!
or
add an air dam (anyone know how high to get over a speed bump?) :?:
and/or
add a belly pan (and TEMP has gone down in other cars)
or
put 1995+ springs at the rear -- raises 1-2" -- nice for big loads!

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:46 pm
Posts: 1099
Location: Abbotsford, BC
it doesnt stop there ! learn some pulse and glide techniques next

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1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 1254
Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
I have also been blasting 60+ MPG recently on my 1998 Metro 3cyl 5 speed. I did a lot of work to make it almost new again and did some modifications, and added a vacuum gauge, but the best savings I get are from learning how to drive to save fuel.

I am going for 70 MPG from my car by next summer. That is my goal! During the winter months where the MPG's suck, I will be locating some parts and learning new things and manufacturing some more extreme aeromods to help out at cruising speeds.

Current mods/upgrades...................

Always maintained (oil changes, air filter, fluids, tires checked, tune-up, etc)
Ignition Timing advance (currently 8 degrees advanced)
Warm Air Intake (removed da tube!)
Weight Reduction (spare, jack, tools, junk)
Tires inflated to sidewall max (44PSI on my particular tires)
Smoother, flush wheel covers
Removed and blocked passenger mirror
Relocated radio antenna to inside pillar
Disabled Daytime Running Lights
Installed ecometer/vacuum gauge
Exhaust upgrade (removed cat and went 2" pipe to resonator)
I keep it waxed and clean
Driving habit changes (Adjust the nut behind the wheel)

Future mods...............

Grill block or swap my 1998-2001 "Schick Quattro" bumper for a 1995-1997 "Guppy Mouth" bumper.
XFi cam or camshaft regrind
Underbody pan
10 degree cam gear
Block heater
Fender Skirts (maybe)

Who knows what can happen after that. This has actually become a hobby for me now. This car is saving me over $3500 per year in fuel savings right now and my truck is rusting in the yard.

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  • EcoMudder - Geo Metro Mudder
  • Project page
  • Build Video
  • 1991 4 Door Truck Conversion
  • Modified Suzuki 1.0L Engine
  • High Stall 3200 RPM Converter
  • Auto Trans with Welded Differential
  • Custom Exhaust and Intake System
  • 6" Suspension Lift & Weight Reduction
  • 27" Kenda Executioner 6 Ply ATV tires


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:46 pm
Posts: 47
Location: midwest USA
I got 66 one time, 50 a few times and now am only running in town, lots of stops, with the air on, with a few 5 mile 70 MPH open road blasts and am averaging 35.


I hope that 35 is an acceptable figure - I can't wait for the summer heat to fade so I can try a few no air 3000 rpm cruises and see if I can't average 50+ for the next 7-10,000 cooler month miles


You'd have to give me a Prius at this point!! Maybe the new Volswagon Diesel Hybrid might make me reconsider a new car, but even a $4300 Kawasaki Ninja 250 purchase cost (70+ mpg) would get me probably over 40,000 miles in this paid off car ... I call it a no brainer.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:41 pm 
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Sad but True...

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
Posts: 2973
Location: Saskatchewan
damn, im gonna shoot for 45-47!

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:01 pm
Posts: 143
i'm so going for 12mpg in my 67 bronco...pray for me guys! haha my 88 sprint n/a 5 speed is a pile...i drive the piss out of it and for one..it just does not die! like seriously...it won't die, but see's 8500 revs on a daily basis, but it burns oil ( i think more then gas) i averaged about 250 miles on 6.5 gallons of gas, it came out somewhere near 42-48 mpg. I love my Sprint :D

_________________
1988 Chevy Sprint, 1.0L non turbo, 5 speed, 4 door, Has ATV tires on it! just your ordinary $150 sprint otherwise.

1967 Bronco, Fully restored, 289 short throw mustang 4.7, 2" lift, 31" MT's

1985 Bronco, 9" lift, 38x14.5 swampers, 60's front and rear with 4.10's, both diffs locked, full cage and fresh 400...my JEEP eater!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
The Metro has replaced my van. went from 29 cents per mi to 8. now it is 6. saves at least $2300 per year in fuel. :D and it is more fun. :D :D
I also have a Warm Air Intake (K&N).
Someday i will fix the crushed fender and wash it. :lol:
Still has 2 outside mirrors and radio antenna. wheel covers, spare, jack, tools and massive seatbelt devices that i dont trust and will replace with CDN ones.

I want to install a vacuum gauge, Any recommendations on style, brand, source, hookup location?

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:09 pm
Posts: 4998
Location: Palm Springs: Too hot from June to Oct.!
xrw44 wrote:
went from 29 cents per mi to 8. now it is 6. saves at least $2300 per year in fuel. :D and it is more fun. :D :D

Someday i will fix the crushed fender and wash it. :lol:

I want to install a vacuum gauge, Any recommendations on style, brand, source, hookup location?


6 cents per mile!

Out here, with the price of gas, we're running about 9 cents.

Can just about see your car in your album. Is the crushed fender why it isn't there in its entirety?

Will watch to see what you come up with as far as a vacuum guage.
I'd like to see a 3 inch combination tach/vacuum gauge with some adjustable indicator lights.

_________________
DIY Broken Bolt Removal: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=41042
DIY Clutch Adjustment: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=48281
DIY Wheel Bearings: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29003
DIY Shocks: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45483
DIY Wheel Align: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42479
Once you get the cars dialed-in (compression, leaks, bearings, alignment, brakes) swap in new rubber and glass, you've got something which should last for years!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:52 pm
Posts: 145
Location: OBX, NC
I'll never see that much with my 1.3l but it sure is nice reading about those hyper MPG cars. I usually get around 40-42 with mostly in town type driving here on the Outer Banks. It's tourist season now so there are tens of thousands of extra cars here at any given time. It makes it challenging for those of us that live here and are trying to go to work, etc. I've gotten a maximum of 46 MPG on a gas mileage loop as I call it. I don't expect to ever get any more than that as I'm looking to up the power now vs getting more MPG. 40 is fine when you're getting out of a V8 Jeep that was getting closer to 10 MPG in the same type traffic conditions. For those of you shooting for 70 MPG, good luck and keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
JohnnyMullet wrote:
I have also been blasting 60+ MPG recently on my 1998 Metro 3cyl 5 speed. I did a lot of work to make it almost new again and did some modifications, and added a vacuum gauge, but the best savings I get are from learning how to drive to save fuel.

I agree -- saving fuel is an art as well as science. i installed a vac gauge (see my album) and was challenged to find a good vac source. The distributor vac is regulated by a valve? The 3 ports on the front of the TBody are not vac? The canister vac line is temp dependant. So what's left? The MAP sensor line! :D I put a T into the MAP line and get reasonable readings. 20-22 at idle or off throttle. 5 at WOT. 10-15 going along.

But IS VAC PROPORTIONAL TO FUEL ECONOMY???

I am suspicious because the green shift light comes on at 2000 rpm +/-.
I have been keeping the rpm below 2500 and got 50-60 mpg. It seemed to drop when i ran higher rpm. Now i see lower VAC readings at higher rpm -- like 3000. WTF?

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 3:32 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Olathe KS
I just filled up today and got 59.5 mpg. I have an XFI camshaft on the way, and still need to do the grill block.

MODS:
No interior except for the drivers seat / controls
Rear wheel skirts
Pass mirror block off
Overinflated tires
Timing advance
No wipers
Changed driving habits
Pretty smooth hubcaps on 12's

I HOPE TO HIT THAT 70 Mark soon~!

_________________
MODS: XFI Camshaft, wheels skirts, passenger side mirror removed, removed wipers, overinflated tires. Seats, seatbelts, rear carpet, spare tire and jack, interior paneling all removed. Removed bumper supports for weight.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:47 pm
Posts: 11669
Location: columbus, ohio
xrw44 wrote:
But IS VAC PROPORTIONAL TO FUEL ECONOMY???


vacuum, especially at the port designated for the map sensor, is so linearly proportional as far as engine operation that it is used as a primary feedback component in the system controls. don't forget that the map stands for manifold absolute pressure and that has long been held as a standard for measuring overall engine performance.

as an indicator for efficient fuel useage, that's a corrollary but it's one that has been used for a very long time. keeping the intake manifold vacuum low conserves fuel but you have to consider engine load, throttle plate angle, and acceleration rate as well.

something that is always overlooked is that an engine will have an optimum engine speed and load. on the g10, that optimum point is darn near wide open. operating at throttle angles that are below the optimum performance point might use less fuel, but from the engine's standpoint it isn't operating as efficiently at part throttle.

to answer the question, manifold absolute vacuum is a darn good indicator as an economy device. keep the vacuum low and as steady as you can while accelerating and you should get pretty good mileage. a good rule of thumb is to drive as if you have an egg between your foot and the gas pedal. you'll feel like you're 90 years old but you'll save gas. :lol:

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
Thanks T3. So the g10 is not designed for economy? we cant be always thrashing around "darn near wide open". when it is efficiently converting fuel into torque, it is not getting the best mpg?
What kind of engine gives the best mpg?

So low rpm is not as important as "egg under foot" acceleration??

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
C3Killer wrote:
I just filled up today and got 59.5 mpg. ...
I HOPE TO HIT THAT 70 Mark soon~!

Congrats on getting 60. I hope several of us get 70. Will they put us on the cover of PEOPLE? :lol:
To be scientific, we should just change one thing per fill-up so we can say how well something works. But my pocket book cant support that. I also seldom drive the same route. makes comparison difficult.

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
C3Killer wrote:
I still need to do the grill block.

you can see what mine looks like in my EXTERIOR album. Its ugly but hasnt fallen off. :lol:

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:43 am
Posts: 73
Location: Diss side da ocean by quiet place
[quote]i'm so going for 12mpg in my 67 bronco.
Yup, my son's jacked up 86 Bronco with 351 gets about 11mpg. The 35 tires don't help. So he stole my Metro Convertible a year ago Christmas and the Bronco sits in the back yard rusting away. So I had to buy another 2 convertibles....and today sent a cam off to Delta Cam deltacam.com in Washington to have it ground to XFi specs. I wonder if they will do a 351 in XFi?

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xxxxx


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
This car runs 60-62 mpg every day

http://www.livesteaming.com/metro.htm

The difficulty has been getting it to go 65 mpg :)

TH


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:21 pm 
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Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
Trevor, nice clear web page and you have done great things to your car.

Where is your Vac gauge connected?
do you see 15 at 4000 rpm with light throttle?
what rpm do you usually shift at?

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:46 pm
Posts: 1099
Location: Abbotsford, BC
TrevorHeath wrote:
This car runs 60-62 mpg every day

http://www.livesteaming.com/metro.htm

The difficulty has been getting it to go 65 mpg :)

TH


very nice.

_________________
1995 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 8VALVE MANUAL
2000 Firefly 1.3 SOHC 16VALVE AUTO. Goals: full restoration, achieve stock MPG and HP or higher, finished look should be 'stealthy' and unassuming. Engine will need to be rebuilt later on to restore compression levels.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:01 am 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Hi,

The capillary tube for the vacuum gauge is connected to a NPT brass fitting which screws into an already existent boss on the intake manifold branch closest to the timing belt.

I only fitted the gauge yesterday. At idle it is pulling about 21 inches, coasting down a long grade about 24 inches. To early to give cruising numbers yet.

Regards

TH


Last edited by TrevorHeath on Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
TrevorHeath wrote:
Hi,

The capillary tube for the vacuum gauge is connected to a NPT brass fitting which screws into an already existent boss on the intake manifold branch closest to the timing belt.

I only fitted the gauge yesterday. At idle is is pulling about 21 inches, coasting down a long grade about 24 inches. To early to give cruising numbers yet.

Regards

TH

that is where my distrbutor plugs in for vacuum advance feed. My 1991 car is 1 yr older than yours? So i put a Tee into the MAP sensor line. I get 21 and 24 also. Compare your Vac and rpm. I was surprised to see the rpm at 15 vac. have yet to check the mpg.

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:40 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Chatham Co., NC / USA
xrw44 wrote:

over 200 pounds on board :(

roof rack :(

10W30 cheap oil.

or
add an air dam (anyone know how high to get over a speed bump?) :?:


I just joined ; let me tell you of a method I used years ago ( when I was young and fuelish).
I had a much-modified Renault Dauphine. Stop laughing! Lots of people laughed ... they stopped when I would pull the front wheels off the ground upon launch. Anyhow, I digress.
Suggestions:
1) Remove the roof rack! Don't ask, just remove it.
2) Add 1 pint GMs "Engine Assembly Lube" (EOS) to a quart less than a crankcase load of 5-W-30 oil (this should give you a bit lower reading on the dipstick than the full mark... oil splash you don't want). This $tuff is pricy...but full of zinc and phosphorus ( super slick stuff) and, some say ... moly disulphide, too. GM is not talking...drag racers swear by this stuff!Any GM parts counter has it.
3) The air dam ... place this beast on a long piano hinge. Attach a beefy bell-crank assembly to this dam...such that the air dam can be "raised"... from inside the car... at low speeds
( it's not working, anyhow at less than 50ish MPH ) and "lowered" at highway speeds ( when it had better be smooth pavement!).

The entire air dam folds forward [ "up" ] on the hinge for speedbumps & ditches ( & dead dogs); rearward and "down" for flat highways. Note: Let your attention wander just once...and you will bulldoze that brick / dead animal / tree limb / whatever. I guarantee you won't like it! Enjoy! Ted :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Hi,

Well....fitting a vacuum gauge was an eye opener. Clearly I was changing up from 4th to 5th too soon and sometimes when I should have left the car in 4th.

Car pulls 26" of vacuum on the longest down hill part of my commute in gear with foot off the gas pedal.

It pulls 20" when at idle.

I saw 0" several times at no more than half throttle and everything in between while rolling along...

I have to learn to drive the car all over again :)

Anyone interested in 60 mpg plus, really needs a vacuum gauge, fitted where it can be seen.....

It will be a week before I can comment on overall MPG differences

TH


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
YES! eyes open. how did i ever get 60? :!: The gauge is saying,
use very light throttle (no surprise, but almost no throttle)
and use 3000-4000 rpm (big surprise).
Not so much 5th. 3rd up hills.
My next goal is to check mpg on a mixed 100 mi mostly between 10 and 15 vac. perhaps 5 from complete stop. some coasting above 20. It will take a few days. We will see if the vac gauge is a practical mpg tool.
=)

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:06 pm
Posts: 1445
Location: Atlanta GA 30052
By maximizing vacuum and ignoring rpm i got 44mpg on 150 mi. On the next test i minimized rpm and ignored vacuum i got 52mpg on 150 mi with an extra 150 pounds. So i conclude that rpm is more important than vacuum. The vacuum gauge has limited use for mpg use. It does reflect the effect of a heavy foot. :D

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


Top
 Profile  
 
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