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Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:11 am 
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Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
In NZ we have 3 and 5dr 1.3 1324cc sohc models with 3.52 diffs in both Barina and Swift badging that run from 1985 until 1989, change over between leaf and coil sprung models is early 86 when the mk1 gti was released, we also have coil sprung 3dr 1.0 swifts with 4.389 diff, these run from early 86 until mid 89 when the mk2's took over, not many were sold, I had one, very basic, vinyl floor instead of carpet, no passenger sunvisor, no brake booster, 680kgs standard.

No 4dr gti's sold here, I have seen a couple of jap imported cultus 5dr gti's with g13b with reverse manifold.
Also at my wrecker there was a mk1 5dr cultus model (jap import) with 1324cc engine, coil sprung rear end but the gearbox had a standard gearset with 4.1 FD, only the gti's in NZ had a 4.1 FD but also had closer gearset.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:11 am 
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Maybe someone here could put together a concise table of the Oceana (N. Zealand and Australia) marketing of the Cultus based vehicles... like we have at the head of the article for the European cars?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:40 pm 
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The problem here is that no Cultus was ever marketed in New Zealand.
We became the prime dumping ground for used JDM cars in the 80's, a trend that continues to this day. Australia was in a different position because they put heavy restrictions on the importation of used Japanese vehicles to protect their own car assembly industry. We were different because there were no NZ assembled cars in the 80's so in they came by the boat load.
Hence all the Cultus on our roads are JDM cars - no brochures, specification charts or records at the dealers.
What we know (Dattman, Ellpee and I, crazy NZ Suzuki nuts) is what we discover when we buy one of these cars, spot one parked, or find in the wrecking yards.
The likely real "experts" on these cars would be someone from Japan - AF34SX2 springs to mind - he has a wealth of information.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:27 pm 
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Damn those Japanese are confusing :P

But now I know why the new Swift (euro MK6) looks more like a Ignis than a MK2-MK5 Swift. But the Baleno/Esteem/Cultus Cresent is still something I don't understand. MK2/3 Swift Sedan are the same as a Cultus Cresent, but the MK4/5 sedan models are Baleno/Esteem based. But on what is the Baleno Hatchback based? Don't know if they are imported to the US as Esteem Hatchback?

LittleMSG wrote:
Baleno is very similar to US Suzuki esteem not US swifts.

I ment the hatch version of it, I think it has some of the looks of the Gen III US Swift

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:52 pm 
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Not sure if it helps, but these are the models that were released in Australia as 'Baleno'. I actually have original Australian photo's from Suzuki that they used for the wagon, they are labelled 1997. I don't think I have ever seen a Baleno wagon in the metal.

I must admit, the Baleno is where I don't have a lot of information. I know there was also a 1.8 model released as the GTX (fairly rare round these parts). There would be a few people on RedlineGTi that could give some more info.

They are the same as what The Whisper has posted from Europe, but this is what we got (not sure there is much/any of a difference).

What engine type did the US MK4/MK5 have? did it have a G series or J series? or something completely different?

1.6 Hatch
Attachment:
au.baleno16hatch.01.jpg
au.baleno16hatch.01.jpg [ 811.32 KIB | Viewed 4853 times ]


1.6 Sedan.
Attachment:
au.baleno16sedan.01.jpg
au.baleno16sedan.01.jpg [ 890.83 KIB | Viewed 4850 times ]


1.6 Wagon (really don't know much about this)
Attachment:
au.balenopress.01.jpg
au.balenopress.01.jpg [ 490.35 KIB | Viewed 4854 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:56 am 
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US swift MK4/5 got g series g10 and g13 (MK4 tbi, MK5 EFI-but not the gti motor) MK5 g13 looked similar to a g16 16valve at a glance, but definitely alot different.

Esteem/Baleno are totally different cars, more like a cousin to the swift.

US didn't get the hatch esteem/baleno, only the sedan and wagon. US also only got them with g16 engines from beginning to end of production and 1.8 j18 from 99 to end (think 02). No US esteem/baleno came with g13 engines.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:22 am 
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AkcapSWIFT wrote:
Maybe someone here could put together a concise table of the Oceana (N. Zealand and Australia) marketing of the Cultus based vehicles... like we have at the head of the article for the European cars?


This is pretty close
http://www.redlinegti.com/articles/art2/

Ours are basically based off the GTi's

MK1 - Boxy shape (SA413)
MK2 - Rounded shape, no electrics, number plate between lights (SF413)
MK3 - Rounded shap, electric windows, electric mirror, revised bodykit few other small updates (have a list scribbled somewhere) (SF413 Type 2)
*nothing labelled 'Swift' for 6 years*
New Swift (RS415) / New Swift Sport (RS416)

We never had an MK4/MK5 locally, but we did pick up the 'MK4' convention, probably because of the restyled rear lights. Believe this was also first mentioned on ssgti.net many moons ago when they converted their project car to 'MK4 rear lights'.

As for MK5, means nothing to me. The European one isn't even something I have looked into before.

I believe the difference between our Swifts was they were never co-designed with anyone, they were brought in from Japan, and modifications were made to meet the ADR's (Australian Design Rules). eg. all our Swifts have side intrusion bars, it's an ADR requirement. Suzuki never let any other company use the name 'Swift' here, between 1999 (very very last MK3 GTi's) and the New Swift in 2005 we just had a massive gap. The Baleno picked up around the end of the MK3 here, but wasn't a huge success, then the Ignis in 2003.. once again.. had issues selling (I personally own an Ignis Sport, and think it is excellent).

The base models of the Swifts were sold to Holden here, and they were just sold as cheap run about's (similar to the geo metro relationship). Suzuki never sold Holden the performance model. The closest Holden ever got was the Barina GS, which was a standard Swift with GTi trimmings.. ie, bodykit (almost), seats etc, but no motor. A similar spec'd model called the 'Swift Extreme' was also sold here, which was basically all the GTi show and no go (sold by Suzuki).

I think the MK4 was really added to our list by how close it was to MK3, and by people chasing the rear lights (me included).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:06 pm 
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bzchi wrote:
AkcapSWIFT wrote:
Maybe someone here could put together a concise table of the Oceana (N. Zealand and Australia) marketing of the Cultus based vehicles... like we have at the head of the article for the European cars?


I believe the difference between our Swifts was they were never co-designed with anyone, they were brought in from Japan, and modifications were made to meet the ADR's (Australian Design Rules).



In fact, all the Generation II Swift/Metro/Firefly/Cultus/Justy et al models originated form the period when Suzuki and General Motors joint-ventured the design -- hence they are all "co-designed" by GM and Suzuki. Some reports suggest GM did the body design while Suzuki did engine and mechanicals... though other reports GM just set the hard points for the design.

Of course, the design originated with Suzuki and GM and has been adapted worldwide, including the European AWD models marketed by Subaru!

These Generation II models are still in production by Pakistan Suzuki and Chang'an Suzuki.

If you were to walk into a Pakistan Suzuki dealer today, you could buy a Suzuki Cultus for between $8,823 and $10,453 US.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Have you got some more info in the GM involvement? articles etc?

I have Subaru Justy brochures too, can scan them.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Isn't a Justy not just a g13b 8v with AWD?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:54 pm 
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Quote:
In fact, all the Generation II Swift/Metro/Firefly/Cultus/Justy et al models originated form the period when Suzuki and General Motors joint-ventured the design -- hence they are all "co-designed" by GM and Suzuki. Some reports suggest GM did the body design while Suzuki did engine and mechanicals... though other reports GM just set the hard points for the design.


Just had a chat with YLDB0Y on Redline (the resident historian, and who wrote the Australian history article), this was his round up:

Quote:
It started well before the MK2. General Motors started their involvement with Suzuki in the early 80's, and the Cultus was their first co-development. (becoming the first small car sold by Chevrolet)

Based on that success, GM increased its share to over 20% and started making the MK2 in Canada for the US market. It recently dropped its stake in Suzuki back to 3% - I'm guessing they needed the cash to pay for their failing US large car manufacturing operations.


So looks like a big chunk of history I was just oblivious too, thanks for the info :)


Quote:
Isn't a Justy not just a g13b 8v with AWD?


There are some other nuances too, for instance the Justy was released based on MK3 as well as European 'MK4' with updated rear lights (angled buzz panel attached to top of rear bar, and redesigned front end).

Also from what I am told there was a version that included dual airbags (which is likely part of the MK4 upgrades?), and in the single airbag variant of this dashboard, there is a shelf/recess in the area above the passenger crash pad where the passenger airbag was in the higher spec model (bonus points for photos of this!). Apparently this airbag dash is pretty much a direct swap for the MK3 dash.

They were also available in 5 door hatch. I have no yet seen photos of a Cultus AWD 5 door hatch (but suspect it exists), will hunt round for some more info (you seen one Dattman?) We got the AWD sedan in Australia in _extremely_ limited numbers, but no AWD hatch.

Here is a brochure for the MK3 Justy, showing the 3 door and 5 door hatch AWD:
Attachment:
uk.justy.04.jpg
uk.justy.04.jpg [ 938 KIB | Viewed 4867 times ]


Would be excellent to get photo's of all the variants together and create a Swift family tree :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:48 pm 
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Very cool info....and yes: a family tree!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:55 pm 
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Somebody should sticky this thread.

Good info there guys. :thumbsup:

AkcapSWIFT wrote:
These Generation II models are still in production by Pakistan Suzuki and Chang'an Suzuki.

If you were to walk into a Pakistan Suzuki dealer today, you could buy a Suzuki Cultus for between $8,823 and $10,453 US.


It's amazing how the original body design from almost 20 years ago is still being produced today!
The Pakistan's Cultus has a nice gauge cluster IMO.

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1991-GTi: JE 75mm 11:1 pistons,Ported head, Single UD pulley (OCC),Sandros chip,Aluminium flywheel,3tech 222/365 cams, Cultus headers,Cultus IM,50mm tb,Crane cams adjustable cam gears,Apex suspension, 4.39fd GB.
1989-GTi: 3Tech 210/340 Cams,Cultus IM, B&G springs, TD04L turbo, Apexi SAFC, Suzukird UD pulley, Circuitse7en dual boost controller, AEM wideband, AEM water / meth injection kit, HKS bov.
2001-Altezza AS200: Stock.-sold
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:10 pm 
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Some more Justy info:
The Justy AWD setup is near identical to the Cultus AWD
The floor pan section for the fuel-tank/AWD setup is the same in 3/5 door AWD hatches

From nzswift on Redline, about the gearbox differences,
Quote:
Gear ratios are the same.
Final drives are different.
GTi has 4.437
SOHC has 4.235


Justy has narrower front driveshafts.

Interesting fact not sure many people know about the AWD fuel tank, because it has the tail shaft going under it, it has a 'hump' cut out of it. Because of the hump, there is a second pump in the tank to pump from one side to the other.

Here is the AWD cutaway from the Australian AWD Sedan brochure:
Attachment:
au.sedan.05.jpg
au.sedan.05.jpg [ 365.15 KIB | Viewed 4878 times ]


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:31 pm 
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Jeez bzchi....
You have to have the most extensive Suzuki brochure collection in the world! Fabulous.
Keep it coming...
Enjoying this thread - please make it a sticky mods.

Re your comments re the Justys. I would be very confident that the 4WD setup is exactly the same as the SOHC Swift/Cultus.
Can't imagine Subaru re-engineering it when the rest of the car is straight Suzuki.
Have only seen one of these in NZ. The older (Subaru) ones are common though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:28 pm 
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bzchi wrote:

Interesting fact not sure many people know about the AWD fuel tank, because it has the tail shaft going under it, it has a 'hump' cut out of it. Because of the hump, there is a second pump in the tank to pump from one side to the other.


And because of the second pump, there is a second fuel pump connector in the loom inside the car on the left side, right?
The mk3 I had wasn't an awd gti or a cultus, but it had a second fuel pump connector "hanging free" on the left side of the car.

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1991-GTi: JE 75mm 11:1 pistons,Ported head, Single UD pulley (OCC),Sandros chip,Aluminium flywheel,3tech 222/365 cams, Cultus headers,Cultus IM,50mm tb,Crane cams adjustable cam gears,Apex suspension, 4.39fd GB.
1989-GTi: 3Tech 210/340 Cams,Cultus IM, B&G springs, TD04L turbo, Apexi SAFC, Suzukird UD pulley, Circuitse7en dual boost controller, AEM wideband, AEM water / meth injection kit, HKS bov.
2001-Altezza AS200: Stock.-sold
2003-EVO7 GT-A
Aruba "one happy island".


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:11 pm 
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time to stir up more arguments! mwahaha :twisted:
I have a 95' metro with the recessed headlights. BUT 90% of the other 95 metros i see around here have the flush ones. why is that my good friends? depends on factory produced in?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:17 pm 
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From what I have seen trying to find those replacement flush or composite headlights for my vert, I bet the other Metros you are seeing are LSI models. I have noticed they seem to be on the LSIs only.

Anybody? right? wrong? :huh:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:17 am 
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redneckgeek53 wrote:
From what I have seen trying to find those replacement flush or composite headlights for my vert, I bet the other Metros you are seeing are LSI models. I have noticed they seem to be on the LSIs only.

Anybody? right? wrong? :huh:


Would there be much interest in glass headlights for the verts/swifts over in NA/CAD ?
Those recessed square lights are awful looking!!

I can source both types if there is enough interest...

Looking at the PAK Suzuki site,you dont seem to be able to buy parts online...??


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:47 pm 
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G10 wrote:
Those recessed square lights are awful looking!!




what!?! no way!
i think the recessed lights give it a unique look. I know i might take some flak from you guys, but i think with the flush/rounded lights these cars look like cavaliers! (well the metro at least)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:50 am 
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Maybe if they were body coloured instead of black, they wouldnt look so cheap/tacky..?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:57 pm 
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well they are like a dark gray

But body colored ones, hmm, that might not be a bad idea

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1991 Toyota Corolla
1975 VW Micro Bus
1989 Toyota Torcel
1994 Buick Roadmaster

"haha, well in normal cars he would actually be right"
"But yours isn't normal.......its canadian"


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:59 am 
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From what I know.....


ALL LSI models are one color....Base models have the grey bumpers. (unless repainted) ;-)


Not sure about the headlights...probably just someone swapping parts from one year to another.



Jimmy


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:34 am 
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Dirty Mobster wrote:
well they are like a dark gray

But body colored ones, hmm, that might not be a bad idea

this is not my car


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DSCN0130.jpg [ 155.58 KIB | Viewed 4843 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:03 pm 
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Is there anyway to know how many 89-94 Swifts were imported to the US? More specifically, how many GT-i/GT?


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