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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:47 am 
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Location: Diss side da ocean by quiet place
I have been using 3000 to 4000 rpm thinking to stay near the torque peak. In the driving I do, 42mpg is the norm. If I use very little throttle and stay below 3000 rpm the mileage dropped to 36mpg.

There is a curve called BSFC in which the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption has a curve plotted similar to an inverted torque curve. It shows where the most horsepower is made with the least consumption of fuel. I wish somebody would wring out a G-10 engine on a dyno and tell us everything. Mech Engineering student...good project for you.

Recently I bought a very low mile 92 stock Convertible. In the next few weeks I want to establish a base line for mileage, then put in the XFI camshaft I just got then check the results, post it here.

I am also the feller putting in a Kubota 905 diesel in my mule Metro to see if I can get astronomical mileage. There are a few pics posted under "Hardtop Probably" on this site. It sits in the car "permanently" after going min and out at least 10 times and needs the throttle cable, exhaust system and a few minor things like coolant lines. Should be driveable next week.....

XR44....Thanks for your input on mileage. ....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:24 pm 
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im putting my car on a dyno this week but I dont think the results would be very useful to everyone else... you are talking about dynoing a stock motor?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:15 pm 
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Yes, dyno a stock G-10, then add XFI cam, then remove the head and put in Singh grooves and get numbers on the mods... In the next few weeks I will be doing these modifications but will have to rely on calibrated underwear for seat of the pants data charting.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:15 pm 
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Yes, dyno a stock G-10, then add XFI cam, then remove the head and put in Singh grooves and get numbers on the mods... In the next few weeks I will be doing these modifications but will have to rely on calibrated underwear for seat of the pants data charting.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:31 pm 
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cbx_kim wrote:
... Brake Specific Fuel Consumption ... shows where the most horsepower is made with the least consumption of fuel. ...

i am thinking that is useful if we are racing. But it only takes 10 to 22 hp to move our cars at 40-60 mph on level road. So for big mpg we dont need maximim vacuum, BSFC, or hp. Just minimize rpm without damaging the engine. I lost 10-15 mpg proving that an engine uses more gas at 4000 rpm than at 2000. Common sense. Even though the corresponding vacuum readings were 15 and 8. The quest continues. Now designing a belly pan rather than a air dam/spoiler.

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daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:00 am 
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Location: Deer Lodge, Montana
I've been averaging 60 mpg lately driving around 55 mph on the highways with my car described here; http://jeremiahsviolins.com/66%20miles% ... Metro.html

An exception is that I have changed from Halo spark plugs to Super Sonic spark plugs. The engine runs much better with Super Sonic plugs but the Halos seem to have given better MPG.

It doesn't have nearly the aerodynamic modifications that Trevor's has.

Running with the lowest engine RPM possible generally gives great MPG. The Somender Singh grooves are essential to smooth low RPM operation.

Jeremiah

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:51 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Hi,

Having driven the car for two weeks with the assistance of vacuum gauge I can report.....nothing :)

The mileage did not improve by my trying to maximize vacuum on my daily commute.

I do think though that it would help on a long distance road trip (nothing planned)

For the past week I've been running with a Suzuki R&D header and 2" dia. exhaust.

This change from a stock exhaust made the engine much more free revving on acceleration and climbing hills. I was pleased to have the vacuum gauge to observe this.

Again though I cannot tell you that it actually improved MPG.

I will be wrapping the header at some point.

One point though is that traffic in general has speeded back up as the shock of 4 bucks a gallon wears off.

The result is that I'm running 60-65 mph on my commute to keep up with traffic and this is of course affecting fuel mileage.....I'd think I can now get 65 mpg at 55 mph on my same commute route.

I've purchased a set of Pulse spark plugs not yet fitted which is the last currently planned engine mod.

The car goes to the body shop on Tuesday for the fitting of the front lip, side skirts and rear spoiler.

I'll be gone for the month of September and will report back mid October.

Regards to all

Trevor Heath
http://www.livesteaming.com/metro.htm


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:07 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Hi all,

Car now repainted with white bumpers.

100% grill block, side skirts and rear spoiler.

Also fitted Pulstar spark plugs.

see http://www.livesteaming.com/metro.htm

It will be about a week before I know the latest mileage numbers.

Of course now it's getting cold, that may distort the numbers

TH


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:39 am 
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Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
That's great! I know my 100% grill block made a huge difference.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:59 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
"For the past week I've been running with a Suzuki R&D header and 2" dia. exhaust.

This change from a stock exhaust made the engine much more free revving on acceleration and climbing hills. I was pleased to have the vacuum gauge to observe this.

Again though I cannot tell you that it actually improved MPG. "


Reality is my MPG has dropped to 56 after fitting the header.

I noticed the exhaust gasses at the collector are really cool which may mean the O2 sensor is not getting hot enough.

Does anyone have any experience with this issue and if so did you solve it by using a 4 wire heated O2 sensor?

If so what make and part number?

Thanks

Trevor


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:20 pm
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Location: Saskatchewan
cant go wrong with an lc1 wideband. you can get a kit for like 300 bucks, and you can even trick it into thinking that 15.5 is stoich

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1991 Swift GT Build G10 +25 psi + other goodies
1996 Metro Build QR25de swap, still undecided where to take it
the lolcar family


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:15 pm 
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Location: Deer Lodge, Montana
I can tell you that with my short exhaust system using a setup very similar to yours, I had ice building up on the outside of my exhaust pipe where it exits in front of the rear wheel in the winter. My car is responsive to a normal oxygen sensor with the EFIE installed. Though right now it has problems; either the EFIE is malfunctioning or the wiring is bad or the oxygen sensor is bad. I haven't sorted it out. I'm still getting 60 mpg nearly every 575 mile tank, driving 55.

Jeremiah

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:08 am 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Thanks for the feedback Jeremiah.

I need to test my 1 wire O2 sensor and make sure it is working.

What do you have your EFIE set at?

You say something wrong with your EFIE / O2 sensor set up, what are the symptoms?

I think though I'll go to the junk yard today an pick up a couple of 4 wire O2 sensors.

I was reading the metroxfi.com page where the guy (does anyone know his name?) went to a 4 wire and reported better throttle response and initial performance from cold which makes total sense.

4-wire are 76 bucks new so I'll try used first.

I also purchased a used 3.52 final drive today so still lots of refinements to make.

Need to find a set of LRR tires too!

Regards

TH


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:00 pm 
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I have not done any diagnosis on my EFIE system; I never have checked the voltage it produces. I simply adjusted it by how the car runs. The symptoms I experience now are that the O2 sensor system throws a code and the check engine light comes on. Normally, it used to do this and then with a little adjustment of the throttle, I could get it responding again. I then would richen the mixture slightly and it would not repeat unless I used different gasoline. This time, the check engine light stays on for long periods of time, like 50 miles or so, and stays off for similar distances. I haven't yet found either the cause or anything I can do to prevent it.

Winter is cutting my fuel economy a bit; last tank was 58 mpg.

Jeremiah

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Jeremiah,

Thanks again for the feedback.

I have my EFIE wound right out. I tried various settings and could not really feel any difference so I wound the thing right out.

I've been keeping the car plugged in both at work and at night to keep the coolant warm and am able to maintain about 60 mpg for the last two tanks of gas.

I did fit the four wire O2 sensor (from a late model Ford Escort) and it does smooth out the idle. It also raised the idle about 200 rpm which I will correct tomorrow when I wrap the header.

Regards

TH


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:25 pm
Posts: 20
Location: SoCal
TrevorHeath wrote:
Hi all,


100% grill block, side skirts and rear spoiler.



TH


Trevor,

Were sis you get the rear spoiler from??


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:14 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Scott,

Rear spoiler, side skirts and header all came from Suzuki R&D in Florida

I currently cannot claim any improvement in MPG from any of the above.

The header may have actually been my first reversal (in MPG) but I'm still working on that.

Reality is I will not know for sure until next spring.

Regards,

TH


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Location: Atlanta GA 30052
TrevorHeath wrote:
Reality is I will not know for sure until next spring.

Due to winter fuel mixture?
Over the last 600 mi, we are down 7+/- mpg. anyone else see a difference?

_________________
looking for:
the time i mispent in my youth

daily driver: red 1991 Metro 3cyl 5sp, roof rack, 8 degree advance,
got 61 mpg combined on 14" tires but i prefer 12"

completed frame up restoration: black 1994 Swift GT 5sp -- like new ! 45mpg


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 11:26 pm
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Yes......because of the colder denser air, the O2 sensor requires more fuel to maintain the correct mixture.

I'm ducting warm air from behind the radiator but even so my mileage is down to 58-59 from 62-63

Also of course, running with the headlights on for more hours in a day.

Also rain on the roads is friction under the tires.

TH


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:20 pm 
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Location: Ashtabula, Ohio
Mine has dropped to a horrible 51-53 MPG in the cold weather.

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  • EcoMudder - Geo Metro Mudder
  • Project page
  • Build Video
  • 1991 4 Door Truck Conversion
  • Modified Suzuki 1.0L Engine
  • High Stall 3200 RPM Converter
  • Auto Trans with Welded Differential
  • Custom Exhaust and Intake System
  • 6" Suspension Lift & Weight Reduction
  • 27" Kenda Executioner 6 Ply ATV tires


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:03 pm 
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Location: Deer Lodge, Montana
Last fill-up was 60.5 mpg here, but the current tank isn't doing too well.

Jeremiah

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:14 am 
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Location: Fort Atkinson WI
I've been struggling to get 50MPG the past few tanks. I've also been driving 55-65mph on the open roads, not worrying about conserving fuel. I

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:50 am 
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Location: Diss side da ocean by quiet place
My 92 Metro convertible was getting a steady 42mpg. I installed the XFI cam, 8 degree advance sprocket, changed to synthetic ATF in the trans, 34psi in the tires and my mileage jumped to a steady 52mpg for the last 2 tanks. I am being very careful of how I drive it. 63mph is my maximum and I try to do a lot of coasting.

Are you 60+ mpg guys living on flat lands? Are you talking Imperial gallons? Are you pissing off 2 miles of drivers behind you?

I'm thinking of preheating the fuel and air too....

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:55 pm 
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Location: Deer Lodge, Montana
My latest tank of fuel was just shy of 56 mpg. (US not Imperial) I think it might be the winter gasoline combined with cooler weather.

I live in the Rocky Mountains.... and try to keep from letting too many cars line up behind me. I drive on the Interstate a lot where that's not a problem. The only "hypermiling" techniques I use are not letting the car warm up but just driving after I start it, avoiding short trips, driving slower (55-60 mph) and sometimes coasting on some long downhills.

Jeremiah

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:12 pm 
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Location: Port Orchard, Washington USA
Kim,

I live in Port Orchard, Washington...definitely not a "flat lander".

I run 60-65 mph on the freeway which is about 50% of my 54 mile commute and quote my MPG numbers in US gallons.

Last tank was 59.8 mpg.

Just fitted a new set of Pirelli P3000 175/65-R14 tires set to 50 psi to replace a mixed set of 185/60-R14 also set at 50 psi.

This raises the tire dia from 22.74 inches to 22.96 inches (stock is 21.1 inches).

I've just received a 3.52 final drive ring gear and pinon from New Zealand (running the stock XFI 3.85 at the moment) not sure when I will fit it though....

50+ out of a convertible is very impressive. What part of the country/world do you live in?

Regards,

TH


Last edited by TrevorHeath on Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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