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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:38 am 
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Location: Kalifornia
Looking at a D16Y8 crank, the oil pump from the G16 will fit, the timing belt cog will fit. The flange for the flywheel is larger in diameter on D16 crank and the bolt holes are in a different pattern. The key-way for the timing belt cog on the D16 is different than the G16. The G16 is slightly wide and shorter, the bolt that secures the cog is larger on the d16. Next, need to determine if the Honda D16 flywheel will work in place of the G16's, in other words will the G16 starter fit and will the flywheel fit in the bell housing. Another option will be to use the G16 flywheel but machine the flange on the d16 and either new threaded holes in the crank or use the d16 bolt holes and place new holes in the G16 flywheel. Will continue to post what I find.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:52 am 
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More info on the D16 crank vs the G16 crank. The thrust bearing on the G16 is on main #3 while the D16 is on main #4, might be able to finish the crank to fit the g16's #3 main or might be easier to machin the block such that the thrust is on #4. The Thrust bearing are to half circle shims that are held in by the caps. The biggest issue now is the flywheel flange. The D16 is significantly larger, trying to determine best course of action. The good news about all this is that I'll be able to get a stronger crank and be able to run the 4340 eagle rods which are about half the price of what is available for the G16 blocks.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:11 pm 
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jpanamis wrote:
The biggest issue now is the flywheel flange. The D16 is significantly larger, trying to determine best course of action.


In what way is it larger? If it's a daimeter thing I would think that it could be machined to the same size as the G16 and then the G16 bolt pattern drilled and tapped into it. You might also need to look at the thickness but again a little machining should sort that no problems.

Did you look much further into using the D16 flywheel? I'd be interested to hear how much bigger it is compared to the G16, but as you mentioned you may start running into starter problems.

Thanks for taking the time to post you finding, it's really appreciated! I'm sure there's more than just me keeping an eye on how you're going.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:42 pm 
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The problem with machining the suzuki flywheel is that the flywheel may not have enough metal after cutting to create the cup for the crank flange to fit as the surface on the flywheel slopes off away from the cup in which case it would be difficult to make the proper alignment after cutting. I still might go over to a flywheel re-manufacturing house that is local to see how different the Honda flywheel. I might be able to have the ring gear swapped as my preliminary investigation of the differences of the two flywheel reveals that they are different only by the tooth count (4 teeth). I was talking to a machinist and they said it would be to difficult to cut the flywheel down to fit the cup as there is no way grab it and it cut the very end of the crank.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:25 pm 
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have you got any other update about this conversion?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:09 am 
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is there any update on the flywheel?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:51 pm 
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jpanamis wrote:
Spoke with a machine shop that specializes in cranks, he said if you do machine down a Honda's D16 main journal then you need to redo the nitriding finish (a surface hardening) which runs $150 US, the machining of 2mm off the main journals would be no problem at $100. The shop said that those cranks are kind of scarce here in so. cal.


The D16 are throw away motors in the honda community as they go to B series motors.

Ive always been interested in this mod and few people seem to have done it and kept it secret or not willing to share details.

Its a shame cause the g16 block is taller than the honda blocks deck height by a few mm and with larger exhaust valves and a little port work will match a g16 will match a d16. Remember some d16 have reached over 400hp with forged rods and vitara pistons.

I would be interested in not what I heard others have done which is line bore the block. The reason is the blocks integrity is slightly sacrificed and then strengthened again with the honda ladder bar.

By modding the crank and having it re-nitrided on the mains you could also de-stroke it to 88mm on the crankpins and use cheap but stronger than most aftermarket forged rods from nissan e15 motors. The crankpin size will be 40mm down from 45mm and giving better rod stroke ratio to boot and able to focus the money on forged pistons from a motorbike using the wiseco catalogue with lower pin height.

Nissan e15et rod (same as e15 rods but e15 rods are longer)
Image

The you can have the rods notched as the early 4ag rods (ones on the left) for cheap oil squirting
Image

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Dattman wrote:
OK, great idea, here is a few more ideas.

It's been bandied about elsewhere about using Hayabusa rods, does anyone have any specs? I know the busa rod has an ID of 41mm, can't find small end size or length anywhere...

98 ZX-9R has 75mm pistons and 04 ZX-10R has 76mm pistons, sorry can't find deck height or pin diameter anywhere.


Ok. My first post here. Wish me luck. :P
I got really exited on the idea of using motorcycle pistons on G13B and came across this http://www.carrilloind.com/Portals/1/Do ... out_02.pdf
So Hayabusa rod is 119,5mm long with 41mm big end and 20mm pin.
CBR 1000RR rod is 103,75mm long with 39.4mm big end and 17mm pin.

So the CBR rod is kinda useless. I was thinking that good consept for under 1,4 NA G13B would be using stock 75,5 stroke crank, CBR pistons and light aftermarket 4AGE 122mm rods. Compression should be somewhere in the 11-12:1 range. Longer rods and lighter pistons reduces stress to the crank and block. The con-rod pin would have to be modified from 20mm to 17mm but I don't think that is a big problem.

Is there anything I have overlooked?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Other than the weight I can't see why you would want to use aftermarket 4agze rods, they are insanely strong rods, I do have a full matching set of 4agze rods if anyone is interested, I don't have the time anymore to pursue this project anymore :(


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:06 pm 
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weight is the key esp. in reciprocating components.

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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:11 pm 
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THIS TOPIC SHOULD BE STICKY


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:39 pm 
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Does anyone know what the value for the Volumetric Efficiency for the G16b is?

Also I have seen two posts mentioning the deck height clearance as -0.9mm and the other as -.2.43mm. Which is the correct value?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:02 am 
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0.9.


also 100thou off a 8v 1324 head brings cc's to 24cc.
giving u roughly 12:1 on standard 1324 8v bottom half.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:18 am 
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Well if there any report of G16B Crank broken?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:52 pm 
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addzub wrote:
Well if there any report of G16B Crank broken?


You hear a lot that g16 cranks are weak but I have never seen/heard of a broken one.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:52 pm 
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metalfab_101 wrote:
addzub wrote:
Well if there any report of G16B Crank broken?


You hear a lot that g16 cranks are weak but I have never seen/heard of a broken one.



Thats my point how much G16 Cranking anybody knows this exactly? :huh:

Is there anybody put that much power on G16 Crank

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:04 pm 
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addzub wrote:
metalfab_101 wrote:
addzub wrote:
Well if there any report of G16B Crank broken?


You hear a lot that g16 cranks are weak but I have never seen/heard of a broken one.



Thats my point how much G16 Cranking anybody knows this exactly? :huh:

Is there anybody put that much power on G16 Crank


Give it a go and let us all know how you go :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:30 am 
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Recently My G16A is cranking at 220hp with Forged Rods and piston and there is no issue as some one told me its cranking limit is 200hp :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:32 am 
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addzub wrote:
Recently My G16A is cranking at 220hp with Forged Rods and piston and there is no issue as some one told me its cranking limit is 200hp :mrgreen:


Yes I would be a lot more worried about connecting rods rather than crank. Out of interest where did you get your forged rods & pistons?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:38 am 
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metalfab_101 wrote:
addzub wrote:
Recently My G16A is cranking at 220hp with Forged Rods and piston and there is no issue as some one told me its cranking limit is 200hp :mrgreen:


Yes I would be a lot more worried about connecting rods rather than crank. Out of interest where did you get your forged rods & pistons?



Rods are pauter and i am using YCP piston

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:11 am 
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Can anybody tell me the width of the G13B rod bigend please?
Thanks.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:07 am 
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ausgixxerpilot wrote:
Can anybody tell me the width of the G13B rod bigend please?
Thanks.


Never mind :-)
I just dropped the sump, pulled a rod cap and measured it.
G13B rods: 22mm width, 120mm length, 45mm bore (for 42mm crankpin), 19mm wristpin.
For reference I've listed some rod dimensions from the Carrillo catalogue:
ZZR11 111.0mm 39x18, 22.86mm width
ZX14 112.5mm 41x20, 23.65mm width
ZX12 107.5mm 40x21, 23.62mm width
CBR11 109.25mm 43x19, 21.64mm width
SV650 120.5mm 41x20, 20.98mm width
GSXR1000 -'04 111.0mm 38x16, 19.94mm width
GSXR1000 '04- 111.0mm 38x15, 19.94mm width
GSXR1100W 117.0mm 41x20, 20.98mm width
GSXR1100 117.37mm 41x20, 20.98mm width
Busa -'07 119.50mm 41x20, 20.98 width
Busa '08- 119.50mm 41x18, 20.98mm width
FZR1000 109.5mm 39x19, 20.80mm width
FZ1/R1 -'03 110.50mm 39x17, 20.80mm width
FJ11/12 118.50mm 41x18, 23.72mm width
VMax 124.0mm 41x19, 19.91mm width
Triple 116.50mm 44x19, 23.24mm width

Looks to me like the FJ1100/1200 rods are the most practical option for a stroker crank.


Attachments:
22mmRodWidth.jpg
22mmRodWidth.jpg [ 147.81 KIB | Viewed 4247 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:35 pm 
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I had the sump pulled off but couldn't find the "safe place" i'd put my verniers in! :buzz:

Just out of interest, what is a FJ1100?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:46 pm 
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G16B_Sedan wrote:
0.9.


also 100thou off a 8v 1324 head brings cc's to 24cc.
giving u roughly 12:1 on standard 1324 8v bottom half.


Are you sure? Thats a big chamber to start with.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:52 pm 
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metalfab_101 wrote:
I had the sump pulled off but couldn't find the "safe place" i'd put my verniers in! :buzz:

Just out of interest, what is a FJ1100?


If you can turn your crank so the centre two rods are at BDC you can measure from the side faces of number two and three crankpins and add 22mm for the rod to give the spacing.
I can't turn the crank in this one because three pistons are stuck so I couldn't quite get my vernier in there. And I can't find my outside caliper either so it'll have to wait until I pull the head :-)

FJ1100/1200 is a Yamaha touring bike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_FJ1200
We have a car racing series here called Aussie Racing Cars which use the FJ1200 engines so the engines are fairly strong. http://www.aussieracingcars.com.au/cars.htm
I _think_ the XJR1300 uses the same rod but the FJR1300 has a significantly longer stroke so I assume it uses different rods - I'm still chasing specs for those.

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