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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Location: colorado river, arizona USA
great build...

mods should sticky this bitch for anyone considering dry sump oiling...its black magic to most hobby types..


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:48 pm 
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Location: Barbados
Great thread and project :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:29 am 
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Started to manufacture an exhaust manifold:

Image

I have also started to make the water and oil piping for the turbo. I am using 8mm Hydraulic steel pipes with hard soldered banjo fittings. The pipes are easily bent using a simple tube bender as in the last picture. Banjos can be welded using a propane torch and some silver solder rod with flux.

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:19 am 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 4:45 pm
Posts: 21
Location: manchester, england
can i ask a quick question please, the gear stick posationing on your gear box, have you had to extend this?
also what clutch set up have you used? swift plate and pad with the sammy release bearing?


im doing same conversion with an jimny box

cheers
chris


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:21 pm
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Location: Durham, UK
Hi Peter,

Thank you for your CAD data.
I got it down load it now.
I forgot about it and lost your post only to find in sticky!

Thanks
Atchi


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:44 am 
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hucky wrote:
can i ask a quick question please, the gear stick posationing on your gear box, have you had to extend this?
also what clutch set up have you used? swift plate and pad with the sammy release bearing?


im doing same conversion with an jimny box

cheers
chris


Yes I had to move the gearstick.

I used a
Swift flywheel, Swift reinforced pressure plate,
Samurai 4 puck sintered paddle Clutch disk, release bearing from Samurai.


/Peter


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:58 pm
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Location: Coimbatore, India
Beautiful build.

What oil squirters did you use for piston cooling ?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:04 pm 
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The ones I have are from Saab 95. They required quite heavy modification to fit so if I should do it again I would definitely choose another set of squirters.

DMWDave at the redline forum supplied quite a lot of the parts for my build and he has also ben very helpful with advice along the way. If I remember correctly he mentioned using squirters from some Nissan. it might be worthwile to look what squirters are available from various Nissan engines.

/Peter


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:19 am 
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It's alive. (Don't worry I'll mount proper hoses instead of the ones I use for crankcase ventilation in the movie.)



Built oil pressure with no plugs at first. Mounted the plugs and it started right away. Been running for 20 minutes or so steady on 2000 rpm so far.

Oil pressure and temp are ok and no strange noises. Next step is to get reasonable fuelling for low to mediate loads and bed in the rings.

/Peter


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
sweet! :D

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:52 am 
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Location: Hungary
pelle17b wrote:
The ones I have are from Saab 95. They required quite heavy modification to fit so if I should do it again I would definitely choose another set of squirters.

DMWDave at the redline forum supplied quite a lot of the parts for my build and he has also ben very helpful with advice along the way. If I remember correctly he mentioned using squirters from some Nissan. it might be worthwile to look what squirters are available from various Nissan engines.

/Peter


Yep, there is such oil jet system on some Nissan engines, like CA18DET or in the SR20DET, but they are expensive as hell, use BMW ones instead of them, under part number 11111 739 907. They are around 10$ per piece. They opens around 30psi (2 bar). In our engines, we machined them directly into the main oil tunnel in the engine block. Necessery to all forged rod setups, because most forged rods doesn't have oil hole for piston cooling.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:50 am 
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I have had problems with oil supply to the rearmost cam bearings on this engine. One cause could be that the oil squirters and turbo consume the oil on the way to the cam bearings. The rearmost cam bearings are the last parts in the oil supply chain.

It could of course be some other cause as well.

Until I have investigated further I would recommend caution and close monitoring of the oil pressure in the head if using the Saab oil Jets on theese engines.

/Peter


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:10 am 
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Location: Barbados
pelle17b wrote:
I have had problems with oil supply to the rearmost cam bearings on this engine. One cause could be that the oil squirters and turbo consume the oil on the way to the cam bearings. The rearmost cam bearings are the last parts in the oil supply chain.

It could of course be some other cause as well.

Until I have investigated further I would recommend caution and close monitoring of the oil pressure in the head if using the Saab oil Jets on theese engines.

/Peter


Acknowledged with thanks. When my motor was turbocharged, I used the toyota 4AG-E oil squirters and TOGA high volume oil pump with no problems. Please keep us updated on your findings.

Image

Cheers
MF


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:10 am
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Location: Czech Republic
Great build. Could you explain me what are those ports on this picture please? Those behind the oil filter are from odry sump tank? What is the port above the oil fiter? I plan to make dry sump without scavenge pump + dry sump tank, so I need the location of the port to connect the hose from custom oil pan... I need it for clearance on my Sidekick. Thanks.

Image

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Swift 4WD, Sidekick 4WD


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:00 pm 
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The ports below the oil filter are for the oil cooler.
The T-Port threaded into the block above the oil filter are for the oil supply to the turbo and for a hose to the oil pressure sender. The sender is attached via a hose to avoid having the heavy sender attached directly to the block for vibration reasons.

/Peter


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:43 am 
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pelle17b wrote:
I have had problems with oil supply to the rearmost cam bearings on this engine. One cause could be that the oil squirters and turbo consume the oil on the way to the cam bearings. The rearmost cam bearings are the last parts in the oil supply chain.

It could of course be some other cause as well.

Until I have investigated further I would recommend caution and close monitoring of the oil pressure in the head if using the Saab oil Jets on theese engines.

/Peter


I have done some measurements on the Saab squirters I used in the engine with the oil supply problem.

The squirters have a spring loaded ball that prevents the jets from consuming oil at low oil pressures. The ball opens at around 1.5 to 1.8 bar which is lower than the 3 bar that I expected. The squirter also has a whoppin 2.5 mm diameter hole, so when the ball opens, a massive amount of oil is robbed from the man oil galley in the engine. (After googling for oil squirter hole sizes I think that most squirters have a 0.8 to 1.3 mm hole.)

It is not unlikely that this together with some pressure loss in the oil cooler and using a thin oil are the cause for the failure.

Many people seems to have used oil squirters in the G13B engine with success. To be on the safe side I think it might be wise to select other squirters than the Saab ones.

Now it is time to start rebuilding the engine again.

/Peter


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:08 pm 
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I rebuilt the engine again with no oil squirters (holes plugged) and I have now run 1500 kms or so over the summer. The engine has worked flawlessly so far and the only conclusion I can draw is that the amount of oil used by the squirters was the root cause.

/Peter


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:07 am
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Location: Shawnee. Ks
Man I wish I had half your talent!!! Keep her running. Russ


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:11 am 
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Here are two short films that I took when driving the car this summer. First one is a track day, and the second one is slalom between cones at an old air strip.
The in film overlay is obviously Speed and RPM. The rightmost gauge is G-force 1G at the circle 1.5G full scale.

http://youtu.be/hcmN15sT72w?hd=1

http://youtu.be/Mb0-lOo3fXo?hd=1

I am glad that you like the build Russ! You are also building a Locost right? How is it going?

/Peter


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Location: Shawnee. Ks
All ready have a built and running Locost. It has a Ford 1300cc xflow but I have a GTi motor sitting in the garage waiting for the xflow to die but it still runs great. Russ


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:34 am 
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I got a Pm with some questions about the oil cooling system. I copy the aswer to the thread since there might be others interested as well /Peter

Hi,

I use a Mocal sandwich plate between the engine and the Oil filter. They come in two flavours, with and without a thermostat. I use one without, so the oil is always circulating through the oil cooler.

The oil cooler is a "C43-182" oil to water heat exchanger from Laminova (I think they are also branded as Mocal, but Laminova is the original) http://www.laminova.se/products/oil-coolers/complete-oil-coolers-c43/. With this setup the oil gives off heat to the engine cooling system. The water radiator must of course have enough capacity to handle this additional heat source. With my setup i have never seen oil temperatures more than some ten degrees or so above water temps.

Also a nice side effect of having this kind of oil cooler is that oil temperature rises faster when the engine is started. When the engine is started the water temperature rises much faster than the oil temperature, and the oil cooler then works in the reverse direction heating the oil until it reaches the same temperature as the water.

This whole setup is dependant on having a water radiator the can get rid of all the heat from the cooling system and the oil. For comparison I use a radiator core from Pace products. It is a 4 Row Core thickness 65mm Dimensions 310mm x 430mm http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/public_html/php/products_info.php?parent=7&productID=core/waterradiatorcore. I have never had any temperature problems on the street or on track with this setup. Engine power output of course also affects how much heat the cooling system needs to handle. For comparison again, the engine gives roughly 170 bhp today (I will tune on a rolling road and raise the boost to hopefully get 200 bhp this spring).

Before installing new radiators or oil coolers please check:
* That the air really is forced through the radiator. There must be ducts so that there is no way for the air to go past the radiator without being forced through it. This really makes a big difference!
* There must also be an escape route of sufficient size for the air that already passed through the radiator.
* The radiator must not be clogged with debries or old "goo" (inside (water passages) or outside (air passages)).
* Check that the radiator fan blows the right direction. If it blows the wrong direction it will cool the car when standing still, but it will overheat when you start to drive.

Also note that changing a thermostat to a thermostat with lower temperature will not help overheating problems if the radiator/cooling system is the limiting factor. If it overheats with a thermostat that is fully open at 90 dec C it will overheat with one that is fully open at 82 deg C as well.

If you have a cooling system that already is of sufficient capacity and want the engine to run a few degrees cooler, then by all means change to a tthermostat with lower opening temperature.

A faulty thermostat on the other hand can of course make the car overheat. In that case it needs to be swithed to a new one. You can normally check a thermostat by lowering it into water that you heat up. You should see that the thermostat open at the correct themperature.

/Peter


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:31 am
Posts: 5
Location: Italy
great Peter! and very detailed instruction!

I suppose to use a easy solution with only the oil cooler instead use the oil/water system (at the moment)

Now I have to do a better air forcing on radiator as actually I loose too much air and this could be one of the problem, the fury front scoop is badly made and may air goes over or under the radiator.

My first problem is that the engine water became too hot when the car is arrested, during movement the temperature is perfect (from 90 to 100, not over) this is why I've think to use a oil cooler solution.
I had a Elise S1 160 and the oil cooler keep the temperature constant... this not happen on Elise without the oil cooler.

One last question: wich tube diameter has your sandwich plate and how big is your oil radiator?

Thank you very much for your very detailed help... soon I'll post some picture


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