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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:38 am 
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Location: Northwest


I got the rear lights working last night. Just need some headlight bulbs and I'll be set. Anyone know what bulb type fits the headlights? It has three (parallel) prongs on the back of the bulb and a round hole on the headlight housing that I fits into..

I've put about 8 miles on the car so far. It seems to run better/smoother after each short drive. Issues at this point are:

1) Idle - I can't seem to make it idle lower than about 1k. I've set the timing and cranked the idle screw all the way down. This might be related to issue 2.

2) Heat - The heater controls seem to work, but I can't get heat in the cabin. Wondering if I have the heater hoses swapped. I hooked the cables up under the dash, but maybe I should check them again...

3) Oil Leak - Seems to be an oil leak around the valve cover close to the distributor or under the distributor. It seems to be fairly substantial, because I have little 2" circles of oil under the car after I have driven it and the transmission has oil on top of it.

Hopefully start driving it this weekend regularly. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Try taking the diagnostic fuse out and see what happens to the idle. Might not be the solution, but leaving that fuse in isn't going to let the ECU run the engine according to sensors.

Sounds like there might be a vacuum leak if that doesn't solve the high idle issue. Stock headlights are 9003s, I believe.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:07 pm 
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Thanks for the tip about the diagnostics fuse CJ, I pulled it and although it didn't change much, it did seem to help it run a little smoother. I agree there might be a vacuum leak somewhere. I will try and find that sometime soon.

I managed to find some 9004 bulbs for the headlights and installed them. I think they are wired wrong though because it seems one is on high beam.

I'm glad Bryan gave me the extra head and block with the sale, because I was able to use the valve cover gasket from the extra head to stop the leaking from the cover. There is still some leaking going on and I am not sure yet where it is coming from. I will have to take the intercooler off and take a good look around.

The heating issue was just the cable actuator not being hooked up. It is now and I got heat, yay! Definitely going to need that this winter.

Also decided to pressure wash the engine bay. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Location: Northwest
Update: I got two codes now. 14 and 23 - these point to the coolant temp sensor circuit and the intake air temp sensor circuit. I haven't had time to test the wiring to these two, but the temp gauge on the dash works and the maf has to be working or the car wouldn't run as good as it does.

My other concern is the fuel pump. I am not sure if there are differences between the TBI and the MPI models and the output or type of pump they use.

Got about 300 miles on it so far and driveablitiy and gas mileage has improved substantially. I think I was eager and running it into boost alot when I was first driving it. :razz:

Next things on the list are to check for vacuum leaks and check the plugs to see what's happening. It seems to stumble a little as it comes on boost. Could be a boost leak as well I guess..


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Those two sensors being faulty/not plugged in/not properly grounded could be causing your issues as well. The ECU is just substituting fixed values for both of those sensors rather than running the engine according to the actual environment.

The dash gauge is not run off of the same sensor that tells the ECU the coolant temp. But they're both on the thermostat housing.

Check that you haven't forgot a ground wire. Could be brittle sensor wires too. If you're going to check wires with a mulitmeter, unplug the harness from the ECU, since the slight current used by a multimeter to measure resistance can fry the ECU.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:51 pm 
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and before you uplug the connectors from the ecu, disconnect a battery cable. you can also let the magic smoke out of the ecu just by pulling the connectors off with the battery connected. :wink:

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Location: Northwest
I'll try my best to be careful with the wiring. I have been known to do some dumb things when it comes to that. I hope to work on the wiring and vacuum leaks, if any, sometime this week. The doors are also in very poor shape. They make some horrible noises at idle, rattles and such, and the windows don't exactly roll up and down smoothly. Also, I don't have a key for any of the doors so I have to leave it unlocked everywhere I go. I plan on doing a junkyard run soon and hopefully grab a couple doors or at least a set of matching key cylinders and key code from the glovebox of a junker.

With that said, it just keeps running better and better every time I drive it. I've started daily driving it to work. I had to make a pass on a truck this morning and was pleasantly surprised as the car accelerated from 57 to 65 mph pretty quickly after the turbo light turned on. :) I drove a newer 3cyl 5sp hatch on a daily commute basis for a week or two before, and this definitely is able to keep with traffic and pass if needed MUCH easier. I don't feel like I have to abuse it in order to keep up.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Location: Northwest
So upon examining the engine bay wiring I notice that the maf connector has only 3 wires going to it and only 4 female recepticals in the plug itself, but the maf has like 8 male pins on it! This could explain why I am not getting a intake air temp signal from the maf.

I also found two other plugs that had no home....
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This one was between the starter and firewall....

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..and this green was hanging around the alternator area...it seems like it could have been for A/C (which was deleted on this car)

Gas mileage and power have continued to improve. I will have a calculation when I run this $20 out and see how she's doing...that might be a while though lol


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:58 pm 
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Location: Northwest
Looks like I got around 37 mpg. It still seems to be improving. I didn't post this earlier, but I found my oil leak. It was the distributor outlet from the head.

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Does anyone have any recommendations for a cheap blow off valve? I am thinking about getting a cheap e-bay one, but maybe there is an oem valve I can make work. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Location: WA
How did you fix it and was it hard? I just noticed mine is leaking from the distributor as well and the valve cover and bolts.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:12 pm 
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Location: Northwest
It's pretty easy. I thought it was the valve cover too at first. That is why you can see some orange gasket maker around the valve cover gasket in the pic I posted. I put some gasket maker in some spots as a extra precaution. I still had a leak after that, so I had to be the distributor area. I just made sure to use a sharpie and mark the distributor and the the output tube thing before I removed it and made sure not to rotate the distributor when it was off, but just gently set it to the side.

As you can see the gasket was completely missing a good portion of it. Luckily, Bryan included a whole box of extra gaskets with the car and I was able to find two brand new gaskets. I used one to fix the leak and I still have a back up. :) I also found two extra valve cover gaskets as well with the stuff he gave me with the car. I think I actually have all the gaskets to rebuild the spare motor I got with the car.

What I really need now is some damn windshield wipers and some door locks that work! I can't park this thing anywhere without fear of theft. The key cylinder is shot too, so you could probably steal the car with a flathead screwdriver! I got to get to the junkyard or order a new set or something.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:37 pm 
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on the blow off valve, what i used first was a 1st gen dsm bov. i did the mods to make it a true fast acting vacuum controlled unit but i did not do the crush mod. the crush mod is a hit or miss deal and there's no accuracy for adjusting the operating range when you do that. you get what you get and work around it when you crush them.

the 1st gen dsm stuff was cheap then. i don't know how available the parts are now.

the bov i'm using on my blue vert was straight from ebay and so was the aluminum flange that i welded directly to the end tank and outlet on my intercooler, right before it fed the throttle body.

a good place for all your induction, intercooler, bov, silicone hoses, t-clamps, etc. is www.frozenboost .

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Location: Northwest
I've heard of the dsm bov's before and the crush method. I don't think I want to go in that direction, but I will take a look for some on my next junkyard run. I have been discussing the apparent "surge" or flutterdump that I'm experiencing with an engineer buddy of mine and he doesn't seem to think that it can cause a problem. I'm no engineer or fluid dynamicist, but if my other turbo car and my just about every other turbo car I have seen has had a BOV, I don't see why the geo shouldn't have one. Perhaps because the volumes are so small, its below some magic threshold and doesn't cause substantial pressure enough to cause excess wear on the turbo. idk

That is a good idea about welding directly onto the intercooler. I will probably do that. Also, thanks for the link. I don't know why, but I am compelled to want the loudest possible BOV.

I will probably get that lock set you have for sale T3, I am trying to get to the junkyard on a day that it isn't raining, but that's hard this time of year. It would definitely save me time and hassle. Thanks. I will message you.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:11 am 
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that little growl that you describe as "flutter dump" is a signature of the mk2 turbo3. that's actually the rubber hoses expanding to dissipate the pressure surge that would normally be handled by a bov. that always troubled me a little bit, too, but as i operated the factory system i got used to it.

adding a bov to the stock setup didn't really do anything as far as function and even vented to atmosphere it was very loud. the boost pressure isn't high enough for the sound to be impressive. as a matter of fact, with the factory setup dumping to atmosphere works against the controls.

the vaf is measuring air that goes through it in the induction phase and the ecu meters fuel to the air mass based on that measurement. when you dump a load of the induction air to the atmosphere, the air to fuel ratio goes out of whack and it takes a bit for the afr to recover and re-establish itself.

to run a bov most efficiently on a stock mk2 turbo3 you need to route the air from the dump back into the the intake piping after the vaf but before the turbo inlet. that negates any noise from the dump. about the only way to get around skewing the afr is to get rid of the vaf and run a map sensor instead. that's an engineering nightmare on the stock control set (but totally possible with the megasquirt controls.)

_________________
1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:00 pm 
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Location: Northwest
I had planned to recirculate the bov, and I know it would definitely subdue the sound, but I'm more concerned about turbo life at this point. I guess this stock turbo is pretty old and has at least 100k on it, so if it hasn't killed the bearing yet, I guess I shouldn't worry about it.

Did you hit max boost at WOT and shift, T3? I am scared to do that...All my being is telling me that something bad will happen. lol


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Location: Northwest
Ran into a few issues recently.

I started running into dead battery issues. After doing a little testing I found that there is a not so small, fade in/fade out, intermittent draw from the battery. It would kill the battery overnight. I checked all the fuses to try and find the draw, but nothing showed up. I didn't have enough time to go into any in-depth electrical testing.

As a band-aid I installed a heavy duty continuous load kill switch to disconnect the battery at night from withing the cabin.( I got tired of popping the hood everytime I parked,lol)

When I did this, I also installed a smaller AGM battery to shed some weight from the front of the car. The ricer/racer in me I guess.

This is where the issues really kicked in. I was able to drive the car maybe two hours on two separate trips, but the result was a smoking/cooked AGM battery. I'm really glad the thing didn't explode. VERY DANGEROUS!

Being a big knucklehead that I am, I didn't check the alternator output and later found out that the regulator was toast and it was putting out somewhere around 17 volts!

Before I pulled the alternator, I put the old large wet battery back in just to see if there was any damage from the battery cooking under the hood. After connecting the old battery, when I turned the key to the on position, but before it cranking, I noticed that the electric fan turned on instantly. The car was cold, and just had the battery hooked up after being disconnected overnight.

Other than the electric fan issue, the daytime running lights aren't on anymore. I can turn them on with the dash switch, but they are not on when I turn the ignition switch to the ON position anymore; like it did before. Everything else seems to be working fine otherwise. It starts and runs fine.

Anyway, I hope I didn't fry something in the ECU or some wiring or some sensors. I guess replacing a sensor or switch wouldn't be a big deal.

On the bright side, t3ragtop came through with the door locks and ignition switch with a matching key. Actually thought, the rear hatch cylinder doesn't seem to work the key he sent...no bid deal. I can lock the doors now so that's huge. lol Oh, and I scored some wipers and some various interior bits from the local junkyard. There was a blue convertible with a dash that matched the turbo dash I have. Maybe it was a canadian model.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Location: Northwest
Little update:

The geo has been proving to be reliable after all. After replacing the alternator, I have not had any battery issues. The battery has remained charged after leaving it for days without starting. The short in the alternator must have been the culprit. It has also come to the rescue of a friend of mine who had a dead battery.

It has been getting 37-39mpg and surprized a few people. :)

I'm looking forward to possibly getting the extra block and head built. I will have a spare motor at that point and I may also have some more fuel economy from a different cam.

Standard gas station shot. Where the metro really shines...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Location: Northwest
Officially invested some money in this thing now...

$750 - Paid in full and registered into my name.
$8 - Turbo banjo and restrictor
$10 - Various washers and misc nuts/bolts
$8 - Headlight Bulbs
$5 - Electrical Connectors to wire tail lights and other
$100 - Lightweight Battery
$10 - Windshield Wipers
$20 - Coolant Temp Sensor
$180 - Windshield
$20 - Oil Change
_____________________________________________
$1111


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new windshield is new

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With rx7 phonedials...14" x 5.5"

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little photoshop...too bad it can't happen because I can't sacrifice ride quality THAT much.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:55 pm 
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I like the "phone dials". Did you have to drill out the center? I am surprised the RWD backspacing works so well. I wonder if the "Wankel Rotor" 13's would fit too?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:58 am 
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Location: Northwest
As long as they are the same bolt pattern, they should fit. My friend has a 96 metro that we put some rx7 slowflake 14's on and all I had to do was grind like 2-3mm off the inside of the bore on the wheels. That is only for daily use. I probably wouldn't trust it on a race car, even though it would most likely be fine.

Oh and the above pic is photoshopped. Sorry I didn't make that clear. The size and offset is the same as the snowflakes on my buddies metro and they sit about like that and he has no issues at stock ride height.

The reason I did the photoshop is cause I saw a set of phonedials for like $40 on craigslist and was wondering what they would look like...still debating.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Location: Northwest
RANDOM PIC UPDATE:

1st gen rx7 clock install...temporary location and mounting lol

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couple more photoshops.. approx. 15" wheels...i'm thinking 14"s will be better as far as weight and tire ratio goes as well as not make the mileage and off-the-line grunt suffer as much.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Posts: 22
Location: Smokey Point WA
IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't tell you how happy I am to see the lil monster back on the road, I sold the Geo and my Caddy to thin my fleet and the A-hole whole I sold my Caddy to scrapped it! So again thank you for finishing it, I still have the stock hood and hatch for the Geo, I'm sure you don't want the hood but the hatch still has a lock cylinder in it that should work with one of the keys I sold it with. If you want, hit me up and bring some keys by and see if they work in it. 425-232-2960 Bryon.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:15 pm 
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hey Bryan! I'm really enjoying this little guy. I do want that lock cylinder from the hatch actually! For some reason the one I ordered from T3Ragtop didn't work. Actually only one worked from the set he sent me, but I put that one in the driver side door and that is all that really matters. I would be nice to open the hatch without crawling into the back seat though! lol.

You are up at Smokey Point still right? I was thinking about having Geo Jeff up there take a look at this thing and making sure the engine is running as it should. I am pretty sure he would be able to spot things easily that I have no idea about. That might be a good time to hit you up and meet up. You can take it for a blast down the street and see what you started!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Your car looks cool. i tell you this it would look even better with the swift door mirrors!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:52 pm 
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Location: Smokey Point WA
XAWAX wrote:
hey Bryan! I'm really enjoying this little guy. I do want that lock cylinder from the hatch actually! For some reason the one I ordered from T3Ragtop didn't work. Actually only one worked from the set he sent me, but I put that one in the driver side door and that is all that really matters. I would be nice to open the hatch without crawling into the back seat though! lol.

You are up at Smokey Point still right? I was thinking about having Geo Jeff up there take a look at this thing and making sure the engine is running as it should. I am pretty sure he would be able to spot things easily that I have no idea about. That might be a good time to hit you up and meet up. You can take it for a blast down the street and see what you started!


I'm off every Friday, Saturday, Sunday and usually home all weekend. Just lemme know when you want to come by, I really would love to see it running!


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