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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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 Post subject: Please Dont Roast Me !!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:40 pm
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Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
Ok guys after 14 long years I have decided my Daily Swift needs to go boosted. I have never done a turbo build before. I know the forums probably hold the answers to the questions I am about to ask, but I have lightly looked over them and didn't see anything.

The car - 1992 Swift GT 160k original miles
The Engine - Bone stock G13B

Will the Stock motor (internals and head) handle a small 6-7 psi of boost?? Or do I need to change pistons and what not.

Will the Stock ECU handle the boost if I have a chip made to the specs of the Turbo system?? I don't mind getting a standalone, ill just have to pull money out of my retirement fund to buy it.

I just want a basic rundown of what I need to change to be able to the low amount of boos I want. I know the exhaust manifold and maybe the fuel pump ??

Any help is greatly appreciated. Please don't roast me too bad on this one. I don't want to budget and get super cheap, I just want to not spend an arm and a leg and not like the boost. That is why I have chosen a small psi rating, and I want to change as little amount of stuff as possible.

If the motor happens to grenade, ill rebuild it for big boost numbers.

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1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Location: Aruba
Just yesterday I started boosting 15psi on a stock motor. Stock con rods and pistons. Stock ecu. BUT I'm also spraying water / meth (51/49). Turbo is from a 2005 wrx. Td04l-13t. I'm using 3000gt vr4 injectors. These are 360cc. Injectors are controlled by an old apexi safc. There is a walbro 255 in the fuel tank. Afr is being monitored by a wideband. The wideband and water / meth kit are AEM. I'm tuning it myself.

How does 15psi feel? Amazing and I'm already craving for more. :lol:

I do have parts to build another engine when the time comes to handle more psi. But for now I going to see what the stock motor can do.

At 6-7 psi there isn't much happening in my opinion. I don't think you'll like it at that low boost.

_________________
1991-GTi: JE 75mm 11:1 pistons,Ported head, Single UD pulley (OCC),Sandros chip,Aluminium flywheel,3tech 222/365 cams, Cultus headers,Cultus IM,50mm tb,Crane cams adjustable cam gears,Apex suspension, 4.39fd GB.
1989-GTi: 3Tech 210/340 Cams,Cultus IM, B&G springs, TD04L turbo, Apexi SAFC, Suzukird UD pulley, Circuitse7en dual boost controller, AEM wideband, AEM water / meth injection kit, HKS bov.
2001-Altezza AS200: Stock.-sold
2003-EVO7 GT-A
Aruba "one happy island".


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:29 pm 
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Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
well I have been talking a lot to the Suzuki group on facebook. With running 10psi I can literally change nothing but adding a chip to the ECU, a high flow fuel rail, and an adjustable FPR. So that is where I am going to start.

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Projects.

1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:17 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Alberta, Canada
I build a similar setup and am very happy with the results. I used a setup from another member on here, with a turbo chip called 'garndis' chip (may have screwed up spelling of his name). I have a small turbo off of a Subaru, a front mount intercooler and not much else that isn't stock.
I have a hard time believing that 6-7psi is a difference you won't notice or be happy with. I'm around 6-8psi. Car runs reliably with no signs of any issue after two years of driving. It's fast. It scares passengers, breaks traction at 50-60kph in second gear, and generally puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. My fuel mileage has been amazing, it seems close to stock, which surprises me.
When I first got it on the road a gt mustang was passing me and he pointed at my car and looked like he was laughing. I waved at him and rolled into the the throttle in 5th. He couldn't keep up with me, we did it again and even with a downshift to third he could barely stay with me when I was rolling into throttle in 5th with no downshift. I can only imaginemwhatnhe was thinking. Lol. "what the heck in in that little thing???"
Anyways, don't hesitate to make the turbo thing happen, you will absolutely love it. Unless you are hugely power hungry, there's a lot to be said for low boost, under 10psi can be fairly affordable and really fun and satisfying. Another advantage to low boost is the transmission seems to be ok, where as power levels reach the next level, more stuff starts breaking and it can really add up more than you first planned!

_________________
1995 Swift w/16V 4.39s, 3tech cam, Esteem t-body, Header, needs more.
1995 Gt Mustang "Boss Shinoda" package.
1999 F150 4x4 Supercharged
1967 Mustang 428 auto, never ending expensive project
1993 Civic si h22a, fell in my lap, couldn't resist!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:40 pm
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Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
I don't want to build a big power monster. That is what I am going to build my 370z into when I purchase the perfect one. I want a low boost fun daily to scare the local "muscle" car guys. I already make them sweat, time to make them cry.

I was thinking about buying the Suzuki RD turbo manifold, but I am just not sure. I don't know much about types of turbo's or anything. What car is your turbo from ?? Is it a T3/T4 or something else.

_________________
Projects.

1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:40 pm
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Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
Also forgot to ask if I need to make the oil pan bigger, or atleast add an oil cooler ??

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Projects.

1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Oil cooler is always a good idea, and don't forget intercooler. I hate seeing people compare boost pressure with unknown turbos and other variable that can greatly change the cfm of air flow. Comparing low boost and high boost is almost meaningless without the other information. You can have a 5 psi of boost setup and have more cfm's of air flow than a 10 psi of boost setup and even have the same turbo.

I wouldn't worry about putting a larger oil pan on. That would be one of the last thing I would do, if at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 178
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
instant_shine wrote:
Just yesterday I started boosting 15psi on a stock motor. Stock con rods and pistons. Stock ecu. BUT I'm also spraying water / meth (51/49). Turbo is from a 2005 wrx. Td04l-13t. I'm using 3000gt vr4 injectors. These are 360cc. Injectors are controlled by an old apexi safc. There is a walbro 255 in the fuel tank. Afr is being monitored by a wideband. The wideband and water / meth kit are AEM. I'm tuning it myself.

How does 15psi feel? Amazing and I'm already craving for more. :lol:

I do have parts to build another engine when the time comes to handle more psi. But for now I going to see what the stock motor can do.

At 6-7 psi there isn't much happening in my opinion. I don't think you'll like it at that low boost.


I'm not trying to nick pick, I'm just on a quest right now to evaluate the different turbos for the g13b.
If you look at the compressor mapping of a tdo4-13 you can tell that they don't do so well at 5 or 6 psi of boost. The efficiency range there is pretty narrow. The td04l also only has a turbine inducer of 47 mm. I'm probably not looking at the exact compressor map, but it looks like at 15 psi you are out of your own efficiency range. The sweet spot looks to be about 1.8 pressure ratio or 12 psi. Overall the range of the turbo is a decent to good match for the g13b.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:19 am
Posts: 361
Location: Canberra, Australlia
Depends how much you want to spend. I have done a couple of variants.

1. Garndi chip is good idea. Can buy off gtaye on redlinegti. Generally good for up to about 10psi with standard fuelling system. Chip was fine for standard 91 RON fuel in Australia but I would recommend premium for a little engine protection.
2. Look after the gearbox. suggest a LSD of some sort, even a phantom grip style. Wheel spin is the enemy. good quality gearbox oil.
3. Look at fuelling, FPR is possibly needed (dyno to check). If you have enough headroom with injector flow avoid FPR as the next weakest link in chain is fuel pump as increase in pressure will drop its flow. Suggest walbro or similar in tank as good effective upgrade.
4. Don't need upgraded fuel rail in my opinion, MK3 or MK2 is fine.
5. Check compression on engine to make sure healthy as it will show up issues quickly and accelerate wear.
6. Properly gapped good quality copper plugs and leads. Plan to replace more regularly for best results. Sometimes you might need to look at coil upgrade (some are better than others).
7. Decent properly sized intercooler. Don't go too big as it will create lag and too much pressure drop.
8. Decent turbo not too big. If you want to get decent quality new, something like a garret GT2554 is really good. I had boost pretty much from 1500rpm with one. Second hand td04 off a WRX or similar sized bush bearing turbo or similar will do the job at a good price.
9. Low boost means log manifold will be fine and have short pipes which helps spool.
10. 2+ inch exhaust system helps. I have a 2.25" stainless mandrel bend system which I had from the original 130hp system to the current 280hp system :D
11. Don't oversize piping and keep bends and length of piping to a minimum.
12. Look at where MAF sensor is placed in the system as some people issues (look at other setups)
13. Use a BPV (a recirculating BOV) as vent to air will mess with the air measuring by the system.
14. Decent heavy duty clutch also very worthwhile.

Some other things that are good with the system are things like an oversized throttle body (some go for 60mm TB but for road car I would go max to 50mm) and cultus intake manifold.

Of course more power should mean more stopping power. Decent tyres and brake pads would be good.

Hope that helps in some way.

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ImageET 13.138 at 120.2mph


Last edited by FlyingGrape on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:40 pm
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Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
Thanks for all the info FlyingGrape.

I actually don't feel so overwhelmed anymore. I thought for sure I was going to drop $10k to turbo my car. I now feel like I can accomplish this task. Everything you guys have told me makes me more confident.

_________________
Projects.

1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:27 am
Posts: 3051
Location: Aruba
codyb76 wrote:
I have a small turbo off of a Subaru, a front mount intercooler and not much else that isn't stock.
I have a hard time believing that 6-7psi is a difference you won't notice or be happy with. I'm around 6-8psi. Car runs reliably with no signs of any issue after two years of driving. It's fast. It scares passengers, breaks traction at 50-60kph in second gear, and generally puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. My fuel mileage has been amazing, it seems close to stock, which surprises me.


The engine in my '91 GTi can break traction in second gear at 60km/h, naturally aspirated. That engine could have made even more power (pistons stays 1mm under block deck), but that's a different story.
I guess I should have said that on low boost wasn't that impressive to me because I've been driving years with modded NA.

_________________
1991-GTi: JE 75mm 11:1 pistons,Ported head, Single UD pulley (OCC),Sandros chip,Aluminium flywheel,3tech 222/365 cams, Cultus headers,Cultus IM,50mm tb,Crane cams adjustable cam gears,Apex suspension, 4.39fd GB.
1989-GTi: 3Tech 210/340 Cams,Cultus IM, B&G springs, TD04L turbo, Apexi SAFC, Suzukird UD pulley, Circuitse7en dual boost controller, AEM wideband, AEM water / meth injection kit, HKS bov.
2001-Altezza AS200: Stock.-sold
2003-EVO7 GT-A
Aruba "one happy island".


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:37 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Antigua and Barbuda
I too am looking to turbo my mk3 gti. I want to know if i can use the stock exhaust manifold and fabricate a turbo onto it. I would prefer to keep my AC because it gets really hot here. Im very concerned about the longevity of the stock gearbox. How long will it last? Im following this tread to collect items for my low boost turbo project. All suggestions are appreciated.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:40 pm
Posts: 587
Location: Duncan, Oklahoma
I have heard the stock gearboxes are weak. I read somewhere about adapting a Hyundai accent transmission.

_________________
Projects.

1993 Geo Metro LSi
1994 Toyota Pickup

My Car Club Website. Check out Videos of my Swift and all the other Cars in my Club.
http://www.youtube.com/simplexcreationz


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 10:08 pm
Posts: 625
Location: texas houston
I seen that car with Hyundai transmission, I asked him on YouTube , but he never answered. He had a custom plate made to fit the G13b.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:27 am
Posts: 66
Location: Lowell, MA
I am glad I found this thread! It answers a ton of questions that I had about the conversion.

So...exhaust manifolds. I don't see a lot of direct bolt on options. Ebay has this but who knows about the quality...

I hear that the TD04 works well but what about the T25 from a 95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse?

Which trim of the TD04 is usually used (subaru, mitsu, volvo)? Ease of fabrication would play a big part into this I would imagine.

I look forward to contributing to this process!

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