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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:20 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania
Like the G's are OE shocks.

Any performance options???


Last edited by Nofur Trunions on Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:54 pm 
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Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
Mk2 Koni "cut a strut" insert will fit in the front, you'll need to modify the strut top slightly, Toyota EP82 rear shocks are a very close fit for the rear.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:33 am 
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The EP82, that's a Starlet, right? trying 1990 from Wikipedia and can't find any listings in RockAuto or Koni.

Frankly, the Koni's are more than I want to spend. I was spoiled by performance KYB's on BMW's...

Hey, I found this really good article that is way more hard core than lazy ass me: http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=54584

FORK OIL:

Are the KYB Excel-G's gas (not mentioned on KYB site)? Would not be against replacing with thicker "fork" oil.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:37 am 
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Nofur Trunions wrote:
Any performance options???


You asked...Koni is it

Yes Excel G's are Monotube high pressure gas shock absorbers, they are good shocks but KYBs are not performance shocks.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:51 am 
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Got it.

For the record, the fronts are

86 2588sport

but what are the rears? Having trouble finding the Koni part number...
_______________

I am pretty sure I DO NOT have the OE strut housings. Koni says for OE housings - would they still work for me?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Location: Pennsylvania
I'm wondering about two things regarding handling improvement:

1) How much improvement are the Koni's over new KYB's, and

2) Is the $ spent on the Koni's the best bang for the buck starting with a stock suspension with at least one bad shock? I would think Sway bars, but they are completely different from MK2 and there is no rear bar (since is torsion-beam - which is not to say someone does not have a rear bar to supplement it.)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Quote:
I'm wondering about two things regarding handling improvement:


What are your intentions? Autocross, Rally, Street Racing or Daily Driver?

If it were me, starting from stock, Koni's would be last on my list.
(I'm assuming all your parts are worn out original OE components)
I would go forward in this order:
1) Lower Control arms $50
2) Strut Rod Bushings $40
3) Inner, Outer Tie Rod ends $40
4) Sway bar bushings $20
5) Inspect/Service/Replace Wheel bearings $100-200
6) Brake inspect/overhaul $100-400
7) Alignment $75
Once all that is in good working order then I would up the ante
8 ) KYB struts/shots best bang for the buck for daily driver $160 ish
9) Strut bushings/Bearing Replacement $50
10) Custom spring upgrade $400
11) Whiteline Bushing upgrade for rear trailing arm $60 ish
12) Custom HD Panhard Bar $120
13) Tires/Rims $200-600
Assuming you do all labor, if not then double the prices.

After that I guarantee you will be a happy camper,
then consider if you want to go to Koni, or some sort
of coil-over, pillow ball camber mounts, strut tower brace,
rear shock tower brace.

And don't forget the vast improvement in performance and
handling by eliminating excess weight, but that's another story.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:11 pm 
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It is clear that all the bushings are fair game. This car though is in a unique condition: 122k miles, all in California and some Arkansas, then driven 1 year in Pennsylvania, then in garage for 12years, then outside for 3 years.

It seems pretty tight throwing it around corners.

As far as bushings, are you suggesting OEM or polyurethane?

But the following I don't get:

1) Lower Control arms $50
3) Inner, Outer Tie Rod ends $40

Once all that is in good working order then I would up the ante
12) Custom HD Panhard Bar $120 Is there a problem with section stiffness of this bar? Should be no bending so only AE/L stiffness which should be very high, however, it could be that the OE bushings are simply too soft? If bars bend, I'd be suspicious of careless mechanics jacking the rear axle and catching the bar instead. Once bent, even if straightened, their bending stiffness is compromised due to yielded section.

BTW, I have one new set of Yokohama A008's in 175/70r12 that I have mounted on the stock 4.5" wheels. They aren't on the car yet, but I had another set on a Metro and the grip was pretty extreme.

I don't like taller tires, and would like to find 50 series in 12 or 13 that the Mini Cooper guys find. Of course, I wouldn't want to invest in wide 12's since tires are a nightmare, but 13's - there might be some Brand X OE's that would be nice. I don't like the idea of NOT having the Tubo Hubcaps though - they are part of the car's character. I'd really love to get a set of 13" Canadian Turbo hubcaps in which case I'd try to find some wide 13" steel rims which might be not impossible.

But I think you've set me straight on the Koni's - KYB for now. What is irritating is that they put new struts and shocks on this car probably before it sat for 15 years. So how did they go bad? Very annoying. I need to disconnect the sway bar and see if I can be sure which one(s) are blown or stiff. When I go over a dip at speed, it's clear there is a major left vs right shock action. Can't tell if it is front or rear though.

Thanks for the list.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:42 am 
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Dude, your shit's 30 years old, trust me, it's all toast.

Have you even looked under your car, or put it on a hoist?

Yes, shocks go bad whether you use them or not. Find a KYB distributor
who will warranty them for you.

Stock panhard is equivalent to aluminum foil.

So if you're happy with the extreme grip of the 12" tires, you're probably just
fine leaving everything else alone.

But I will give you one last bit of advice, if you've got one bad shock, it don't
matter which one, you need to replace them all.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:45 pm 
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I've broken spot welds with the A008's. They are soft compound, last 6000 miles at most (ran another set out on a Metro w/Festiva alloys.) There are bigger tires that people use, but they are too tall. Raising CG or lowering suspension to compensate for too tall tires is not the reason to lower suspension.

Yes, car on lift, underneath is still white OE paint. Spooky lack of rust.

Bushings: OE or poly?

Good point about the shocks. Warranty might be a moot point, good chance they will be NLA soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:35 am 
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Good luck finding OE bushings.
The normally aspirated ones do not work, MK1 Turbo has a larger diameter swaybar.

You can cast your own, a little pricey after all is said and done just for 1 set,
and you need a good donor set. Gotta buy the mold kit and urethane.

Whiteline is pretty much your only option, however they aren't quite rounded
like OE, but they will work.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:52 pm 
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Any way to machine the bushings? (I'm thinking if the plastic hard enough to machine, it's too hard.)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:31 am 
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Look at the fit, what are you going to machine?

You would have to take a larger bushing and machine it down to size.
mxmikie has claimed to have done this on a lathe, he has/had a whole barrell
full of donor bushings.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Some Russian guy on youtube made some bushings for his Citreon (!) Trick to turning was to press the bushing on a mandrel - this preserved it's roundness and gave it support. Clamping in a chuck maybe for drilling the hole - he didn't get in to that operation, but I'm guessing it was straightforward. To soften the bushing like he OEM, drilled small holes spaced along a centrally located diameter.

You can buy every type of plastic bar stock from McMaster.com


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