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 Post subject: bored afm
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 11:06 am 
i heard some people bored out the air flow meter but..<br>is that any probleme<br>is it not supossed to be calibrated??<br>the signal to te ecu will be the same and it will breathe more air ?<br>so is it will run lean???<br>thanks<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: bored afm
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:09 pm 
That's my opinion too, but people are using an other chip, whichs runs more rich, so the problem wil be solved (roughly, nobody checked it).<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: bored afm
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:10 pm 
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if you bore out just the main opening, it's not going to register any more airflow @ the sensor, however if both holes are bored out, it should work fine. it would probably take a fair bit of trial & error to develop the technique/sizing. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: bored afm
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:56 pm 
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Usually most people bore the MAF because they're putting a bigger t/b on and trying to get the most air flow possible. I think you can only take the MAF out to 49mm or maybe 50mm. Some of the guys running 60mm t/b are running fitted MAF's off small Fords like Lars (GTi couples) since they are already a larger size and not as much guess work. From what I've been told getting the larger MAF's tuned to your car can be a real pain. Price could be an issue too with boring them out. One on e-bay went for $150US and I've seen sites that charge up to $300US for bored out MAFs. I'm sure a local machine shop could do it cheap though. I don't know about running lean. I think it's best to do the whole setup, bored MAF,bigger t/b,mated intake. Then easier to tune. That's from my research not experience. My stuff's not here yet so take my rambling w/a grain of salt. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START >D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=syl23>SYL23</A> at: 4/4/03 5:25:18 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:49 pm 
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GTicouple actually doesn't recommend the Ford style anymore. They told me it was hard to tune and the types where the collector for the AFM sensor is suspended in the middle are easier to tune (easier to see than explain). They both have to me modified regardless. It helps that Lars is a machinist. I was going to take some AFM readings off of his to see if there was a noticeable voltage increase even at idle (give more fuel for more air), but I didn't have time before I left their place. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Also, they mentioned that tuning was really difficult before Toms chips because the sensors were in a constant battle and one part of the program would essentially try to cancel the other out. The chip cured that. I'm not trying to sell the chip, just saying what I was told.<br><br>If all goes well, I should have a 55mm TB and 65mm AFM on mine with the built motor this time around. All through their help of course. I've already ported my intake manifold to match in anticipation at any rate.<br><br>Let us know if you experience the sensor battles SYL.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:00 pm 
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Thanks Kyle. You said the chip solved things so when I get mine and get the car running will see. If I have probs trust me you'll hear from me. Like I said my findings were research and obviously not up to date <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> . What did you get the 65mm MAF off? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:23 pm 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta
92 Mercury Topaz (Ford Tempos seem to use a different system). Apparently some Ford trucks have it and some others are hidden in the plastic airbox or around it. I don't know which/who/ or how. I looked in the wreckers for 6 months and I've only come accross this one and one other in the past 6 months. I smashed the sensor on top of it (can't use the sensor) and just paid for the AFM case which cost $2 at the wrecker.<br><br> GTicouple will do the expensive machine work side on it. Basically just play with the air metering hole and adapt it so our sensor will fit on. Exactly how much work it will end up taking, I don't know. He's done it and runs one in his beauty of a GTi now.<br><br>They grew tired of some of the attitudes that pop up on the forum (and they pop up consistently), as well as people who would take credit for their ideas. They don't do a lot of updates to their page anymore but they are still doing lots of work on their GTis. They are a pair of the most hospitable people on the face of the planet and it's too bad they are not around the forum anymore. <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:00 pm 
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Lars is a great guy. He's sending me my 55mm t/b. I sent him some more Taylor wire for his new Swift. Of course both are stuck in customs right now and we're debating on what to do, but he has been more than helpful with my questions when I emailed him. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> I'll have to talk to him about the MAF. You guys live in the land of plenty when it comes to swifts, but I live in the land of plenty when it comes to broken down fords and mercurys. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> I smell another swap brewing. Thanks for the info Kyle. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: MAF
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:39 am 
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the best upgrade for suzuki swift gt is the MAF that minics the stock one only bigger. It is very common and easy enuf to modify one.<br>chances are if suzuki uses it, it is a good thing.<br><br>If you have the skills or the friends to do it here is a list. there is an old post of this somewhere also.<br><br>when increasing MAF main bore size you also have to get more air thru the sampling tube. the sampling tube should be "reamed" and not drilled, as turbulance in this area is not good.<br>Also the exit of this sampling tube has to be enlarged. when u remove the back piece you will see what i mean.<br><br>its a long skinny rectangular slot with runs perpendicular to the air flow.<br>I am milling this approx to 1.5 times more then stock on a 56mm maf 60mm tb combo.<br><br>also the mounting face will have to aluminum welded and faced off and then a slot milled in the face to allow the suzuki MAF sensor to line up. and holes drilled and tapped for the MAF sensor.<br>and then a we larger O-ring is needed to seal up the MAF sensor.<br><br>these new FORD MOD motor MAF's with the bars down the middle are a wee too big <65mm> to get any proper readings. I have tired a 60 mm one and a new 65mm one and can not get very much success. in ice racing and rally racing. peak power is not a concern but soemthing very driveable and instant throttle response is where its at. as you rotate the car with the throttle.<br>all the carb'd cars have a diffenate disadvange on the ice.<br><br>the best way to tune a maf after you have successfully upgraded to a larger TB. is to take a vacuum reading of your car when warm and idling...<br>then do your swap and make sure you can get back to that reading.<br>them 65mm maf i could not get a vacuum reading over 8inches of merc. while stock got 21 ish<br>even reeming out the sampling tube and taking off the back plate/making it smaller etc...<br><br>the only way i could get it to run the way i wanted was to stick 3 fingers in the hole, and then the realative size of the sampling tube was bigger.<br><br>i will post pics as i'm machining 2 up this weekend.<br><br>also your MAF should not be bigger then the TB.<br><br>that 65mm ford MAF is now being used on a ford <cough> with a custom mod'd sheetmetal intake with a <get this> a ported 75mm TB <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> and with a fuel system similar to a hondata <but for ford. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: MAF
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:19 pm 
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you have have have have to use a stock suzuki maf sensor.<br>all otheres are different.<br>chances are the whole ecu is dun <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:38 pm 
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f**k it!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START >: --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>im going to cut a maf and weld a three inch pipe to it!<br>i will bolt, maybe even weld it to an sr20 tb and see what happens!<br>i will have all spare parts so if i f**k it up i just put back on my old stuff and drive away!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>but MURR or anyone else, give me some advice, i was even thinking of doin it like toyotam take off the meter and just 'mount' it in a pipe so air passes over the wire at the same time as through the intake, well, that doesnt sound promising so ill just cut it, im worried about the exit, where should i exit the air going through the meter?<br><br>ill use nissan afm's which are cheap.... <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:52 pm 
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The mad quebecer
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There is expensive & inexpensive ones I just blow my ECU today while messing with a mecury cougar MAF. I was pretty sure that each wires where connected as it should but they wheren't. The little board didn't liked it at all and went BOOM!!<br><br>I used my nostrils to locate the wound..... <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/jardamuth/vwp?.dir=/GT&.src=ph&.dnm=Blown+ECU---1.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/bc/jardamuth/lst%3f%26.dir=/GT%26.src=ph%26.view=t" target="top">Resistor</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Hope I can find another resistor like that at my local electronic shop....otherwise...bye bye ECU! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Oh...now that I think of it.... does anybody have a blown ECU lying around. If so you could cut a little piece of the board with the resistor on it and send it by post?<br><br>Jar <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:22 am 
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How come my posts stay at the end of the topic?<br><br>Anyway, I found a european ECU today. I'ts labeled EPI HI-TECH on the box and a custom wire run out of it to be grouded. I guess it's from europe? I opened the box and it's pretty obvious that a lot of work has been done on it. Some resistors were added on the board and it's been chipped too. It tried it and the car started at the first try. Seem like the rev limiter is not there anymore because I can easily rev the engine way beyond 8500rpm.<br><br>I wonder whats that thing does. I'll run the car later as soon as the snow will melt (we got a big storm yesterday).<br><br>BTW, I bought the ecu for $125 from a friend of mine. The car has been sitting in the shed for many years and he didn't even know the ECU wasn't stock.<br><br>Jar<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:34 am 
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Wish I had friends like that. Another reason to move to Canada...... <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 1:07 pm 
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<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>How come my posts stay at the end of the topic?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>lol, your starting to talk too much like me. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>The ECU sounds cool. I guess it was a good thing you fried your old one. <br><br>As for the AFM issue. The only time my car sees 21 vac is under decceleration. At idle it's closer 15-16.... all of my 'Calgary' cars have tested the same. People should keep altitude of where they live in mind. 8 vac sounds like you are letting too much air past the TB if that's the case at idle. If it was possible that big only meant low vac Toyotas hotwire system that was mentioned wouldn't work... ever. I know your set up is different alhtough I don't know at what point you were playing around with this. I do know that a little over a month ago at Lars place he was able to tune his car better with the different larger AFM because of how of the set up of the air sample tube. What is possible is that his version is smaller than 65mm and that's why he experienced such success with it. I know it was not from a Topaz, and although I'm fairly positive it's a 65mm, it could be smaller.<br><br>As for bigger AFMs than TB, anyone planning a turbocharged GTi willl only benefit by it. <br> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 1:33 pm 
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yes the reason the idle vacuum was low was the low MAF voltage reading being sent to the computer.<br>the computer is trying to keep it alive and opening the idle circuit bypassing the TB and sucking more air.<br><br>them big straight bar mafs kinda ran like shit.<br><br>it doesn't matter what what your car reads when warm but make sure after the swap it is the same.<br><br>probably the biggest reason you only see 15 or what ever is due to the altitude.<br><br>at sea level in van you would get a higher reading.<br><br>currently with the SDS when warm up cycle is off. the car runs at a constant 20.5 ish. at 1000 rpm.<br><br><br>them big 65mm MAFs i find in the big ugly air box on a titan 4.6 and 5.4 v-8 new ford motors<br>the 60mm are found in 4.0 litre rangers and such... even a 2.3 4 -banger i think... <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 3:55 pm 
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<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>them big straight bar mafs kinda ran like shit.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>ok, but not on Gticouples car. I was there and saw it running 'spanky' anyways.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>probably the biggest reason you only see 15 or what ever is due to the altitude.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>altitude like I mentioned, and older motors.<br><br>My 65mm was found on a 2.3L Topaz.<br><br> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:15 pm 
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for all interested in moding larger mafs<br><br>i have some decent pics of what needs to be done...<br><br>just did up 2 more today.<br><br>will post pics here tonight<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://groups.msn.com/holyshift/shoebox.msnw">groups.msn.com/holyshift/shoebox.msnw</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>so if you have a TIG and mill and some time giver.<br><br>remember to post your woo's or go's<br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:16 pm 
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Kyle,<br>I've bought two AFMs, one from a 2.3L Mustang and another from a 2.3L Ranger. They turned out to be the same size as the Suzi GT AFM, and both exactly the same. Any details on what year Topaz you found the larger body on. Sure it was a 2.3L engine? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 7:34 pm 
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btw Liam- I know that you don't talk to GTicouple anymore, so you might not realize what is going on with their car. They have other things on the go, but currently they use Toms chip which eliminated the battle between the sensors for your ECU comment. I've mentioned this in other threads a few times as well. Not bad for $40USD. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> They said it was definetely easier to tune with that chip in there anyway.<br><br>And Georges, it was from a 92 Mercury Topaz (that's what was written on the car at the wrecker) and it was a 4 banger 2.3. Ford Tempos don't share the same set-up.. strange considering they were sister cars. Like I said, I've only seen two of the right kind of AFM cases at the wreckers in the past 6 months. The first one I went to pick up, but the cow at the front was going to make me pay $12 for a sensor I couldn't use, and I couldn't get it off due to whacky Ford bolts/screws holding it in place (sort of like their iginition module tool you need). All that I wanted was the $2 case which is why I wouldn't pay it hte first time around and why I smashed the sensor the second time around.... errr, I mean luckily the sensor was smashed and useless on the second one I found.<br> <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:06 pm 
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hehe <br>what was ford thinking when they used those tamper proof torx bolts. curse them.<br>i bought that nut driver set from MAC.<br><br>i have run TOM's chip from day one. its great i love it<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://groups.msn.com/holyshift/suzukiswiftmafmods.msnw?Page=1">groups.msn.com/holyshift/...snw?Page=1</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>pics here<br><br>any questions ask away <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub83.ezboard.com/bteamswift.showUserPublicProfile?gid=murr@teamswift>MURR</A> at: 4/6/03 10:30:27 pm<br></i>


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 Post subject: Re: MAF
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:08 pm 
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More like mini-torx. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> I'm used to all my Japanese stuff that doesn't use these Ukranian sizes and nuts (I'm half Ukranian... therefore the comment is politically correct). <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> All the Ford stuff I've had to touch (Escort, F100 (66), Town car <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :( --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ) every nut and bolt is different. Even if something only has two bolts, they'll make both on that one piece different. Then I sigh relief thinking about my Swift or Toyota stuff and 8,10,12,14,17,19mm and perhaps an axle nut and a screwdriver socket and the whole car is dissasembled... <br><br><br>I'm out of solutions off the top of my head as to why Lars has good success and you couldn't get the computer to stop fighting then. I'll ask him what size he is using... perhaps the answer is simple. <p>-Kyle Jones <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Resistor
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:37 am 
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Jar,<br>Did you get the ecu repaired? I had a similar problem a few months back where I kept blowing my ecu due to an electrical problem. After some trial and error I manged to find that the resistor was the only problem. I bought a pack of them and changed it and the ECU works fine now. I can't remember the size of the resistor off the top of my head but I have that information at home. I could check it tonight if you still need. I had a Electronic Engineer friend working on it with me and he figured that the resistor was there to protect the board.<br><br>Actually the way that I found out aboutit is that I bought an ecu from the wreckers and it didn't work. I got suspicious and opened it. When I did I realised that the resistor was missing I guessed it must be a problem with these computers. After I changed it resistor that one worked too.<br><br>BajanGti <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Fried ECU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:55 am 
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The mad quebecer
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Hey BajanGTI, Thank a lot man! you just gave me new hope!<br><br>When I opened the box it was pretty obvious that the blue resistor was toasted like hell. I'll take a chance and have it changed at my electronical shop this morning and tell you what's going on.<br>It's not that I don't like the re-chipped one but I'd rather start with a stock board when my turbo setup will be finished. I guess most of aftermarket chip are remapping timing for more agressive advance, wich is not very good on a turbocharged engine, even a low compression like mine.<br><br>Jar <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Fried ECU
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:08 am 
So much burned that you cannot read out the color code on it anymore? Have a look in another ECU and write down the colors of the rings! <p></p><i></i>


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