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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:33 pm 
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I recall hearing about the 95-up cars having longer springs, and how swapping thm over will lift a pre-95 car. IIRC it was CJDave that did the swap. I need a little more spring, and a little more travel in the rallycrosser, and I have 95 parts car, so I started looking into it. I took a few measurements from the front springs, and found the following wire diameters.
89 turbo3(gti also) 12mm. The 89's have the heaviest wire dia.
93 Metro 11.5mm
95 Metro 12.25mm
There is more to spring rate than wire diameter, but I'd be wiling to bet that the later cars have a heavier spring, and may possibly be a decent choice for a budget spring cut/swap, for lowering, and handling. Despite what some people say, the rate will also increase as you cut them.
I should do the swap eiher this weekend, or during the week. I'll take some before after measurements, and post my results.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:52 pm 
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I pulled the struts out of the 95 car last night, and should get time to finish it off tomorrow night. I'll measure the rears, and try to take a pic. I measured the wire diameter of front and rear. They are both .5mm heavier on the 95 car.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:18 pm 
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I got the front struts from the 95 installed on the 93, and it did exactly what I was hoping. It raised the car just over an inch (about 30mm), and its also quite a bit stiffer. While doing the left side, I found out that the noise that I thought was a strut bearing was actually the ball joint, so I had to change that also. The 95 car appeared to have about 1/2" longer control arms(as I have heard). I would like to have used them to pick up a bit of neg. camber, but again, no time. I swapped in a good used one from a parts car. That job took longer than I thought, so the rears didn't get installed. That'll be a job for tomorow.
If you are looking for a bit stiffer rear spring, and a little height, this should do the job. See the pics.
I think if I were going to do a budget Metro buildup, I would try to get the swaybars, and springs from a 95-up car. With the front having a .75mm bigger wire dia., and the rears being .5mm, I would expect it to make a big difference in the way it handled, especially with the heavier swaybars. I would start with cutting a 1/2 coil, and then 1/4 coil at a time, if that is not enough. For me, the mor travel, abd stiffer spring should help ALOT on the gravel.
Image
Notice the tabs for the brake line in a different place? You'd have to cut, and re-weld this. The brake line won't reach.
Image
Quite a heeight difference.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:00 pm 
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Excellent write up Mike. Do you think the 95 swift has a higher spring rate than the metro?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:08 am 
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The coils look identical, except for the wire dia., so I would expect them to have a higher rate. The car feels alot stiffer in the front, too.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:19 am 
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This is very interesting. I suppose for street/track applications, one could also use the '95+ Metro springs, then knock a coil or two off to lower the car and raise the spring rate beyond what the MK2/MK3 springs are capable of.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:06 am 
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Lihtan wrote:
This is very interesting. I suppose for street/track applications, one could also use the '95+ Metro springs, then knock a coil or two off to lower the car and raise the spring rate beyond what the MK2/MK3 springs are capable of.


Quote:
I think if I were going to do a budget Metro buildup, I would try to get the swaybars, and springs from a 95-up car. With the front having a .75mm bigger wire dia., and the rears being .5mm, I would expect it to make a big difference in the way it handled, especially with the heavier swaybars. I would start with cutting a 1/2 coil, and then 1/4 coil at a time, if that is not enough


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the later cars have a heavier spring, and may possibly be a decent choice for a budget spring cut/swap, for lowering, and handling.


I was thinking the same thing
These springs are heavier than the original 89 springs, which were previously the heaviest of al the coils.
I should get a chance to finish the rears today. I started doing the job outside, because the weather was so nice, but it rained all day yesterday. I'll post a pic when I'm done. It looks like a 4X4 :D

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:39 pm 
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Well, the install went pretty smooth, and it looks like it worked. The car looks like a 4X4 now, so we'll see how it handles. I took it around the dirt oval a few times, but it was a bit too wet to tell.
The rallycross is coming up next weekend, so that will be the big test. After that, I'll have to put in some shorter springs for the ice.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:50 pm 
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Looks like I need to find me a junker MK4 :twisted:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:26 pm 
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HiTempguy wrote:
Looks like I need to find me a junker MK4 :twisted:


No shortage of them in the yards here. One of them that I deal with regularly has about 10 of them, so you shouldn't have any problems.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:36 am 
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suprf1y wrote:
Lihtan wrote:
This is very interesting. I suppose for street/track applications, one could also use the '95+ Metro springs, then knock a coil or two off to lower the car and raise the spring rate beyond what the MK2/MK3 springs are capable of.


Quote:
I think if I were going to do a budget Metro buildup, I would try to get the swaybars, and springs from a 95-up car. With the front having a .75mm bigger wire dia., and the rears being .5mm, I would expect it to make a big difference in the way it handled, especially with the heavier swaybars. I would start with cutting a 1/2 coil, and then 1/4 coil at a time, if that is not enough


Quote:
the later cars have a heavier spring, and may possibly be a decent choice for a budget spring cut/swap, for lowering, and handling.


I was thinking the same thing
These springs are heavier than the original 89 springs, which were previously the heaviest of al the coils.
I should get a chance to finish the rears today. I started doing the job outside, because the weather was so nice, but it rained all day yesterday. I'll post a pic when I'm done. It looks like a 4X4 :D



Would you keep the original struts or carry them over too? BTW, I am looking to autocross this, not Rallycross.

Thanks for the swap info.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:54 am 
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Don't think it matters. I swapped everything because the 95 car only had 90k on it, and the 93 had 250k.
Where will you autocross, with WOSCA?
Maybe I'll come out to the winter series if they have one this year.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:58 am 
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I am the president of WOSCA so I should probably run with them!

Right now we are going from event to event due to the pending sale of our lot. It is a bit of a pain, but at this point we have no choice. We are really hoping to run a winter series again this year, but we'll have to wait and see.

Have you ever run with us?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:08 pm 
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No, I haven't. I ussually run with the Corvette clup in Oakville. I work nearby, and like the long, fast track they set up. I also like to beat the Vettes with my turbo3 :D
I wondered what was happening with the lot. Thats where the Toyota plant is going isn't it?
I'm surprised the pres. is running a 3. If you have ANY q's don't hesitate to ask. I know a little bit about the 3cyl :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:47 pm 
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'The pres' usually swaps between his 1990 RX-7 or his Dad's spec Miata, but I bought the 3 cyl for a winter beater.

I am having a hard time figuring if I want to run this in H-stock with a lot of other cars or just up a class and do some cheap easy mods. The whole idea behind this car is to keep it under a $1000 for the entire winter. That is why a spring swap like this caught my attention.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:47 am 
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FASTRAKR wrote:
...The whole idea behind this car is to keep it under a $1000 for the entire winter...

Sure, we all said that at one time. This isn't a recovery forum, we're all addicts here! :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:58 am 
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FASTRAKR
Your next event is on Nov 6? Are you planning to run your swift if the event takes place? I was planning on coming down and running a stock 3 cyl metro. Would be cool if I wasn't the only 3 cyl. Do you have plans on where you're going to run next year?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:05 am 
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If the car is done, and it better be, I'll be running it. Would be cool to have more than one there so I can compare.

Right now we are actively searching for a lot, I'll let you know if there is a change of venue. You can also check http://www.wosca.com for details.

If you show up and I don't have the swift look for a Smurf Blue Miata with a full cage.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:09 pm 
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I think I'm working that weekend, but if not, I'll bring the 93 rallycrosser, and let everybody hae a turn with it :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:56 am 
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O.K. I like your idea, but I have a twist, I want to swap springs from an earlier car in to my 96 to lower it.
Has anyone doen this? Any mods to the springs to make it work?
I am more than likely going to combine this with new KYB AGR struts.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:17 pm 
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You could, but you'd be better off just cutting a coil from youe existing spricngs.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:20 pm 
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That is what I was thinking, but I don't want to make the ride too harsh. I would like to get about a 1 to 1 1/2 inch drop from this.
Just looking at going this route because I'm cheap and would rather not spend the money for the H&R springs.


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