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 Post subject: The Camphor Effect
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:37 pm 
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The "Camphor Effect" refers to putting camphor balls in the tank....

anyone ever tried this?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:25 pm 
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Tried once. Poured some gas into a container then dropped in some moth balls and stirred it up to help it dissolve. They don't seem to dissolve very quickly though... I got tired of waiting and gave up. Will be using the gas in the lawnmower instead of the car just to be safe.

If you try, be sure you're using naphthalene moth balls. Some moth balls are made of para-dichlorobenzene, not good for engines I'm told.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:51 pm 
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Vilan wrote:
Tried once. Poured some gas into a container then dropped in some moth balls and stirred it up to help it dissolve. They don't seem to dissolve very quickly though... I got tired of waiting and gave up. Will be using the gas in the lawnmower instead of the car just to be safe.

If you try, be sure you're using naphthalene moth balls. Some moth balls are made of para-dichlorobenzene, not good for engines I'm told.


a friend of mine told me it was on Myth Busters b4 but i never got to see it, he said that they dont recommend it

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:11 pm 
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Well, the moth balls are supposed to raise the octane rating of your fuel. For anyone who knows what an octane rating is... It's not the "power" or "quality" of the fuel, it's the resistance to detonation. And anyone with an engine that would require higher octane than available at a gas pump, sure as hell wouldn't be using mothballs to increase his octane... Unless of course, he's a complete redneck :lol: . Even with a small to very small octane boost, you'll get all kinds of other fuel injector/fuel filter clogging, rubber line rotting goodies with it too.
If moth balls were meant to put in a gas tank, APC would have already boxed it in a ricey looking box and sold it on the shelves by now.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:32 pm 
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If you want to raise fuel octane painting supplies like xylene and toluene are the way to go. Mothballs or anything else that is purchased in a solid form I would be especially careful with.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:25 pm 
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okay alan! you just called me a redneck! :lol:

i used napthalene moth balls all the time when i mixed up the swill i used to run my old v4 cars on. i used 101+ low lead aviation fuel, a tetraethyl lead additive, napthalene moth balls, and toluene to run my 11.5:1 pre-1974 engines after they quit selling leaded fuel.

the tetraethyl lead was great for quenching the fuel burn (thereby raising the octane and lowering the firedeck temps) as well as plating out on the valve seats. when they took away the lead, the older engines with less hard valve seats couldn't deal with it. the edge of the valve would spot weld itself to the seat area and the next time the valve opened it would tear a little chunk out of the seat. valve regression without the leaded fuel was so bad that i actually punched the valves down into the heads so far that the rockers couldn't be adjusted. i had several sets machined for monel valve seats but had problems with those getting beat and broken.

the upshot of the deal is that mothballs will work to a degree but they're hard to deal with and will only go so far towards raising the octane of the fuel you add them to. they worked super for a high output 2 stroke engine. a word of caution, don't use a fuel that has alcohol blended in it when mixing fuel with napthalene and toluene. the alcohol picks up water from the tank, emulsifies the water, and the napthalene and water forms a nasty wax that clogs up your fuel filter and small fuel passages. also, try to get the mothballs without the cedar scent they like to add. it was my experience that what ever they used as a scent would remain as a little brown ash after the rest of the moth ball disolved.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:43 pm 
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ok... sounds like a sketchy subject fo real... i ain't trying that stuff.

i thought that higher octane meant more hp tho... i guess i learnt something today. good info on what it really does tho GeoZukiGTi :thumbsup:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:11 pm 
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if you really want higher octane fuel, go fill at the airport =P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:39 pm 
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Stanno wrote:
i thought that higher octane meant more hp tho...


Nope, but what higher octane does give you the ability to do is things like advance timing, raise boose, higher compression etc to get more power without detonation. Too high octane you can actually hurt power and gas milage if you dont have any modifications to take advantage of it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:47 pm 
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to grasp what effect the octane rating of fuel has on engine operation it can be explained that lower octane fuel burns more rapidly than higher octane fuel. when the spark ignites the fuel/ air mixture a flame front starts to roll through the combustion chamber starting at the spark plug tip and ending when most of the fuel has been burned. when lower octane fuel is used the flame front usually doesn't completely consume all of the fuel due to the fact that oxygen in the chamber starts to be depleted.

since the lower octane fuel is easier to ignite, it's possible for a red hot sliver or spot of carbon to ignite the mixture before the spark plug fires. anytime you light the fuse before the piston reaches the top of it's stroke, the pressure from detonation tries to force the piston down before the connecting rod has a chance to reach the point where it "knees" over. once the rod passes the top of it's stroke the piston is forced down providing the proper coupling of the energy to the crankshaft. if it ignites before the rod passes it's full stroke that energy is spent trying to force the crankshaft backwards which not only is counterproductive as far as power is concerned, but puts a considerable shock load on all the engine internals - hammering bearings, bending the connecting rods, shattering pistons, etc.

higher octane fuels burn at a slower rate and generally burn more completely which increases the efficiency of the conversion of the air/ fuel mixture to kinetic energy (power.) the controlled bloom of the flame front also produces lower fire deck temperatures which is a bonus for your valves and pistons. since the flame front is slower and more controlled you can advance the engine's timing further giving you some other benefits for tuning. also, since the fire deck temps run considerably cooler, the engine isn't as apt to create hot spots which would prematurely ignite the mixture (known as pre-detonation.)

when higher octane fuels are available it's probably best to tune your engine to run them as the overall efficiency of the engine would be maximized. when it comes to internal combustion, higher efficiency is also most often translated to higher output. i routinely get higher fuel economy when i run 94 octane fuel and in the long run the $.20 per gallon i pay for high test usually gets me a handsome increase in mileage so that in the end i save a little money along with getting an increase in perfomance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:00 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
to grasp what effect the octane rating of fuel has on engine operation it can be explained that lower octane fuel burns more rapidly than higher octane fuel. when the spark ignites the fuel/ air mixture a flame front starts to roll through the combustion chamber starting at the spark plug tip and ending when most of the fuel has been burned. when lower octane fuel is used the flame front usually doesn't completely consume all of the fuel due to the fact that oxygen in the chamber starts to be depleted.

since the lower octane fuel is easier to ignite, it's possible for a red hot sliver or spot of carbon to ignite the mixture before the spark plug fires. anytime you light the fuse before the piston reaches the top of it's stroke, the pressure from detonation tries to force the piston down before the connecting rod has a chance to reach the point where it "knees" over. once the rod passes the top of it's stroke the piston is forced down providing the proper coupling of the energy to the crankshaft. if it ignites before the rod passes it's full stroke that energy is spent trying to force the crankshaft backwards which not only is counterproductive as far as power is concerned, but puts a considerable shock load on all the engine internals - hammering bearings, bending the connecting rods, shattering pistons, etc.

higher octane fuels burn at a slower rate and generally burn more completely which increases the efficiency of the conversion of the air/ fuel mixture to kinetic energy (power.) the controlled bloom of the flame front also produces lower fire deck temperatures which is a bonus for your valves and pistons. since the flame front is slower and more controlled you can advance the engine's timing further giving you some other benefits for tuning. also, since the fire deck temps run considerably cooler, the engine isn't as apt to create hot spots which would prematurely ignite the mixture (known as pre-detonation.)

when higher octane fuels are available it's probably best to tune your engine to run them as the overall efficiency of the engine would be maximized. when it comes to internal combustion, higher efficiency is also most often translated to higher output. i routinely get higher fuel economy when i run 94 octane fuel and in the long run the $.20 per gallon i pay for high test usually gets me a handsome increase in mileage so that in the end i save a little money along with getting an increase in perfomance.


:thumb2: great... that's much clearer.

I have a ques. what if you decide to use a higher octane and tune ur vehicle to accomodate this change and then ... say u cant do any better and u have to use the lower octane for a while... what effect will this have on the engine

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:36 pm 
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to a small degree, the ECU can correct for the difference in octane. if it doesn't do the job you'll be able to hear the engine pinging (pre-detonation.) when that happens you can do a lot to help out with the situation by keeping your throttle angles small and the engine's load light until you can either get better fuel or dial some advance off the distributor.

the turbo3 system has a dedicated antiknock circuit that uses a microphone to listen for the engine pinging. when the circuit detects knocking it automatically retards the ignition timing.

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