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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:34 pm
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Location: orlando, fl
I emailed Rospen and checked out Whiteline...with no luck so far.
I have the stock worn out rubber bushings on the back of my car...I guess I figured since the rear end of the swift is not a whole lot more then dragging a trailer around :-P , it wasnt important.

Well, with the welded diff, I actually get a little more oversteer then needed. I have a stock rear swaybar too :wink:

I can only get around 1 degree negative camber on the rears. I want to increase this and see what happens.

Even if there is a way to increase rear camber without poly bushings, I will still look, I'm retarded buy the rear poly's from Rospen, just to tighten things up.

Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:58 pm 
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if i'm not mistaken, the only way to change the rear camber is to make a change in the spring length. the toe control rods make the knuckles "squirm" inside their bushings. changing the position of the hole in the big "D" bushing at the front of the control arm would only change toe and the only bushing that could affect camber is such a small diameter that there's no room to offset the hole.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:34 pm
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Location: orlando, fl
ah, okay,

I guess that is how I got 1 degree negative, as the car is lowered in the rear. I can raise and lower the rear as needed, so maybe once I get my new tires in 205/55-14 I will see how low it will go without rubbing, and call it a day...
although, you have to be a little careful, I think with the control arms...as you dont want the arms pointing down towards the middle of the car, as this does something with the geometry that you supposedly dont want.

Or maybe that is just with the front arms, causes bump steer or something...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:00 pm 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
Noltec WILL make an offset bushing for the car.

drop me a PM with details what you require.

And the control arm geometry you mention is to do with bump steer. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:39 pm 
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SCCA, I can forward you some e-mails from Whiteline pertaining to all of the bushings they offer for our cars, including prices from about a year ago.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:03 pm 
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Location: Qc Canada
get mk4-5 northamerican rear control arm...
with gti rear knuckles you get between -2.0 and -3 degres :wink:
don't forget to re-adjust your rear toe

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:41 pm 
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tekkie gti wrote:
Noltec WILL make an offset bushing for the car.

drop me a PM with details what you require.

And the control arm geometry you mention is to do with bump steer. ;)


it's hard to get "bump steer" on the rear end.

there are poly bushing sets available for the rear end but the bushing that would need to have it's hole off center to affect camber is too small to allow enough room to offset the hole. i have not seen a bushing for the rear that would increase negative camber.

i haven't tried mk4/5 rear control arms. if the later model rear control arms are longer (which would increase track on the rear axle) that would indeed cause a negative camber. it might also move the wheels and tires out increasing the possibility of tire contact with the fender. another thing is that the tunnel for the rear strut is pretty tight. much change in the position of the rear knuckle, in or out, might cause the strut to drag on the walls of the strut tower tunnel.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:00 pm 
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Location: Pottstown, PA
Matt,

Have you slotted the upper strut mounts to allow for more camber?

--Roy

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2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS - Daily Driver
2004 Dodge Ram Pickup - Tow Vehicle
2006 Suzuki DR-Z400SM - SuperMoto
2009 Cannondale Rize
I rarely visit TeamSwift anymore, so please email me if you have a question. On average I'm only checking my PM's here once a month. "roy (at) forcefed4 (dot) com"


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:58 am 
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
t3 ragtop wrote:

it's hard to get "bump steer" on the rear end.


indeed. :) thinking front end.
Would the pivot point in relation to the outside wheel have any bearing on how the tyres perform. Surely you are reducing the track by having the control arms pointing upwards instead of level ?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:34 pm
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Location: orlando, fl
roy,
Do you mean slot, like a camber plate, at the top of the rear shock?
This wont do me any good will it?

Noltec? They are a reputable company?
I will look them up and see what they say...

thanks,
matt


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:30 pm 
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Roy Dean wrote:
Matt,

Have you slotted the upper strut mounts to allow for more camber?

--Roy


have you, roy? (i went back after reading my post to include this, too: not a smartass question or a slam so please don't take it that way. i've never seen it done on the back of a swift but that's not to say you racers don't.)

when i measured the clearance in the strut tower tunnel for the rear end there wasn't enough room to clear the strut mount's frame or the strut boot with slots that allowed the mount to move toward the car's centerline.

i've seen cars that had the inner fender part of the tunnel chopped out to make room for coilovers. i decided against chopping up the chassis to get more negative camber on the back wheels. lowering springs induced enough camber for me with the 15" wheels and 195 rubber.

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1991 Blue Geo Metro Convertible highly modified 1.0L Turbo3 5 spd. - 1991 Red Geo Metro Convertible customized with a Twincam 5 spd.

My Turbo3 Project
My Cardomain Page -Ol' Blue
My YouTube Channel
My Photo Gallery
SAAB Sonett II


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:38 pm 
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Location: Christchurch NZ, quake capital
You won't get much camber by slotting the top, I'm not sure about your rules SCCA but the best way is to slot the bottom, actually it's better to weld some small tags onto the lower arm where the hub bolts up and redrill the holes further out, it will give slightly more track and as much camber as you want, you will need longer control rods though.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:09 am 
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Location: Pottstown, PA
Wow, so many comments....

:lol:

Have I personally slotted my strut towers? No. Because I haven't felt the need for that much camber in the rear. Can it be done? YES, DEFINATELY. The junker racecar that I bought (the shell of which is now cut up into about 75 pieces) had it's rear shock towers slotted. The bolt holes were cut into slots, and the opening for the strut top was notched to allow the entire strut to rock inboard. Everything fit just fine, including the stock "boot" (not really a boot, more like a cover). I did a rough measurement VS. my swift, and the junker had over 1° more negative camber than my car.

So in short:

T3 - Yes, it can be done.
Dattman - 1° is a lot more than "not much"... and totally worth the $0 and maybe 1/2 hour of work, if you're searching for more camber.
Matt - Yes, it's legal and WILL help you, if more negative camber is what you desire.

Also Matt, I have the noltec plates on my front struts. They work, but are a pretty lame design, and difficult to adjust accurately.

_________________
1989 Suzuki Swift GTi - ITB Racecar
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS - Daily Driver
2004 Dodge Ram Pickup - Tow Vehicle
2006 Suzuki DR-Z400SM - SuperMoto
2009 Cannondale Rize
I rarely visit TeamSwift anymore, so please email me if you have a question. On average I'm only checking my PM's here once a month. "roy (at) forcefed4 (dot) com"


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:34 pm
Posts: 319
Location: orlando, fl
great!
sounds like an easy mod.
Another thing to do over the winter :lol:


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