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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:27 pm 
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Location: barrie,ontario.canada
ive heard of vitara pistons being used to lower compretion in a g13b and was wondering if anyone can point me to more information on this


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:03 pm 
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yeah, click here..

Pistons Help

Its been asked loads of times :)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:19 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: good one TimD


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:42 am 
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Just one small qestion...

Anyone used titanium rods/pistons??

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:17 am 
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Anyone won the lotto?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:41 pm 
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Titanium pistons?? and what else? I tried swiss chocolate exhaust valves but they keep melting all the time.. :huh:

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 Post subject: hi
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:49 pm 
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i heard from a mate of mine that the 1.6 vitara pistons will fit in my g13b block and i dont have to bore it out. is that true??? and they have a lower compresson. im asking because im about to turbo charge my swift and need help to lower the compression.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:35 am 
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Jardamuth wrote:
Titanium pistons?? and what else? I tried swiss chocolate exhaust valves but they keep melting all the time.. :huh:


Yup titanium... My tuner (Tom Pirowski) works for TTE and there he met guys from russia (or some of former USSR countries) that make titanium parts (eg. for ford focus WRC). Those pistons cost approx 20% of price of forged pistons. They are so cheap because he sells his electronics to owner of that factory :) I'll be trying to buy those pistons...
As far as I know those are coatet with some black material and they produce even special version of those that withstand n20!!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:51 pm 
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TimD wrote:
yeah, click here..

Pistons Help

Its been asked loads of times :)


HA HA HA LMAO ROTF :D

good one ?

you use the search and you'll see there is a lot of people talking about it in there and no real information on it

swifty_swift asked a reasonable question its not like its something that gets asked ten times a day like "how do I turbo" he is turboing his car in fact the turbo was purchased yesterday as well as a piggyback computer and he wants to make sure he does it right instead of doing it all ghetto or having a car waiting to detonate. He is a young guy who is trying to learn and people like you have to try and ruin the experience


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:57 pm 
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Well before joining this forum i didnt have the slightest idea of what needed to be done when turboing. You will probably find a post nobody answered because it had been asked a million times before.

So i embarked on a massive search, and i can now tell you that they wont fit in the swift engine, they are a 75mm bore where as the gti's have a 74mm bore. So you will need a 1mm over bore in order for them to fit in

This question has been answered so many times, infact if we looked on the first page of this forum i bet we could find an answer.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:21 pm 
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Matt... there is no need to call people names, please keep some courtesy while answering to someone else, even if you don't agree with him.

Yes it's true, that question as been asked many time but wasn't answered a lot I'm afraid. 1.6 pistons would be perfect for a turbocharged engine. I personally use turbo3 pistons but they require some machining for valve cutout. Turbo3 are perfect fit since they are 74mm just like the 1.3DOHC. I especially like them because they have hard nitride coating on the top and around the ring land, wich make them more heat resistant. They lower c/r a bit more than 1.6 pistons due to a lower pistons height. 1.6 pistons are 75 mm and they are all the same on these models: swift sedan, vitara, sideckick Saloon, esteem...etc. As long as they are from a 1.6 SOHC.. they'll all be the same. Nothing forged here, all suzuki pistons are cast. Forged pistons are way too much expensive to produce and cost is not justifiable on these 'vehicles for the masses'

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Last edited by Jardamuth on Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:32 pm 
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If i could find the answer im sure sombody else can, it saves the technically minded people like yourself jess answering the same questions, over and over again.

In future i'll leave things well alone. I bet the guy did actually find the answer he was looking for anyway, it does save you time, and waiting a few days for the proper answer in some cases is a few days days too many.

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 Post subject: hi
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:05 pm 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
to all the turbo swifts out there, i just wanted to know does it cost a fortune to bore the head out?? and how long did it take? thanks yall


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:26 pm 
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Bore the head? you mean the block?

cost vary from place to place I guess. I have some friends in a machine shop and it cost me $20cad per holes.

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 Post subject: Question...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:06 am 
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Thanx Jard, i agree with you and i have some questions?

The 75mm piston conversion has been done...but do you know anyone who tried 75.5 pistons, suzuki oversized from the std. size?

My fear is that would weaken the block and put extra stress on crank and rods...

The other thing is that everyone says it lower c/r but none tested it? Because ppl assume that being lower pistons, or have a lower deck that they reduce compression as on 1.6 head, but that is not true, cause of the design of the head itself...i don´t know if explained myself...

The head of g13b is diferent from a g16b, the "pent roof" is diferent, if the c/r of a vitara on a g16b is 8.5:1 in a g13b it could be 9:1 for instance...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:10 am 
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yep..but on a vitara the c/r is not 8.5:1...far from it! Those kind of ratio are only seen in turbocharged engine aplications. It would be totally useless to have such a low c/r in a naturally aspirated car.

Now the question i'm asking: Why would you put 75.5mm oversize pistons?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:55 pm 
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You should check what percentage titanium is in those pistons. It's still going to be an alloy.... some people get off on saying somethign is titanium with very very small percentages.

I agree with Jar. The extra bore isn't going to do so much as it is just going to lower compression. Great for turbo...


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 Post subject: thanx...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:53 pm 
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Yes the car is going to be turbocharged...see my new/old toy topic...since i obligatory have to put pistons due to a piston meltdown i rather put low c/r ones.

I did some research on suzuki pistons and found that any 1.6 suzuki had a 8.5 c/r, from what model are ppl talking about?

Baleno(esteem)1.6

Swift 1.6

Vitara 16v

The Vitara 16v engine has a 9.5:1 ratio on the g16b, so how do ppl get 8.5:1 ratios by switching pistons, following the logic, when you do a 1.6 conversion, by putting a g13b head on a g16b block you get a 8.5:1 ratio.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:19 pm 
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Installing 1.6 SOHC pistons on a 1.3 DOHC engine is similar to swaping head over a 1.6 block, at the difference that a 1.3 crank moove the pistons a bit farther up the sleeve than a 1.6 crank does. So.. if you install a DOHC 16V head over a 1.6 SOHC 16v block, you will have a lower c/r than you would with a swaped pistons 1.3 block...wich would be around 9:1 I think.
Swaping head on a 1.6 from SOHC to DOHC lower the compression, hence why many people (as myself) found out the swap not to be really worthwile in pure h-p figures. You want a killer 1.6 DOHC setup? Have a set of 1.3's gt pistons ordered in 1mm oversize trim and put them in the 1.6 block and bolt the DOHC head on it, now my friend, you will have something very interesting.

BTW, 1.6 pistons on a 1.3 bock does not give 8.5:1 c/r.... it's closer to 8.9:1 instead. To get a magic 8.5:1 c/r, you would need to deck the pistons a few thousanths or perform extensive headwork in the combustion chambers.

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Last edited by Jardamuth on Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:27 pm 
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What forged piston specs would need to hit the magical 8.5:1 compression ratio?

Im still intreged by the turbo 3 pistons too. I think you told me these would slot in and drop the compression to around 8.9:1.

Thanks for any info provided :)

Tim

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 Post subject: Pistons
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:02 pm 
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Wiesco makes the correct pistons. They make dish or dome or standard styles. They are forged. They can even move the wrist pin. For strokers or long rod motors. They are not the cheapest thing at about $150.00 USD. per.. But you get what you want in comp. and boost issues.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:05 am 
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Jardamuth wrote:
BTW, 1.6 pistons on a 1.3 bock does not give 8.5:1 c/r.... it's closer to 8.9:1 instead. To get a magic 8.5:1 c/r, you would need to deck the pistons a few thousanths or perform extensive headwork in the combustion chambers.


What's so "magic" about the 8.5:1 comp ratio? I know it's a common ratio for other turboed vehicles. I've been trying to locate some hard data on what the ideal comp ratio I should run. I know lower comp ratios let you run more boost, and you get a better margin of safety against detonation, but also suffer from weak naturally aspirated power off-boost. High comp ratios give your engine more power off boost, but are limited in available boosting range and detonation resistance. What I'm looking for is some indication of my boost limitations on higher comp setups, and what a "liveable" loss of off-boost power would be like with lower comp setups, then pick a happy medium.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:40 am 
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I think from a conversation with jess the 8.9:1 compression is fine for 15psi of boost?

Tim

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:35 am 
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Jar thank you very much for the info now call me a retard but where can we get turbo 3 pistons never heard of them before do you have any specifcs on how much machining needs to be done on these pistons

swifty_swift also says thanks for all the help he is really looking forward to getting this project underway he's got all kinds of go fast goodies and really the pistons question has been the only one stopping us from getting the motor teardown started


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:52 am 
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I think the Turbo 3 pistons are from the 3 cyl turbo sprint. But dont quote me on it.

I think they the pistons im going to run with, forged pistons in the UK are extremely expensive and if the turbo 3 will keep the engine happy at 15psi of boost then i'll be happy.

Of course the correct fueling upgrades will be carried out and have found a mocal oil cooler kit for the swift.

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