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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:50 pm 
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Not really sure if this could be called a FAQ or not so if it needs to be moved I apologise in advance. The reason I'm posting here is because I've gotten numerous people looking for good sound that is A) lightweight and B) cheap. I figure there is probably a few guys here who want that too as we aren't all the type to design a system capable of showing up on a richter scale. The info I'm going to post here is actualy the response I've given to a member here that had the same question. Sound that is light in weight and light on the wallet. Here goes.

-Clarion 4" coax in the dash works very well. At the shop I worked at they were $129 installed or $99 over the counter. Stuff a bit of polyfill in the speakker openings first. Polyfill is used in pillows and stuff. You can get it cheap from Wallmart but it will come in packages that will give you way more than what you will need. Clarion makes some of the best cheapo speakers out there. Oh yeah, do the fronts only. They are the closest to you and will make the biggest difference.

-Cheap decks are cool but I would look into a Clarion again. Clarion uses the same amp IC in all there decks. Very good sound and output from them. Look for a DB 235. Retail is under $200. It's black, has a rotary knob, lights up blue, and has a detach face plate. Also has a set of RCA outs for an amp. If your happy with the output of your current deck though you can keep it and make it work, however, upgrading it would be huge as far as sound goes though. It would even make a big differrence on the stock speakers too.

-Subs are a little bit harder to design without adding much weight. I'll go over your options here. Bazooka tubes are lighter than most subs because they use a thin wall plastic tube as the enclosure. They are very efficient as well. Also have an on board amp which saves space. IMO they sound a bit boomy (great for hip-hop) and aren't as tight as other systems. Best thing to do is have all your power/ground/speaker wires in the back of your car and ask a local shop if they would hook it up for you to hear it. As a note, Bazooka does make a 5 channel system. It may be the best for you. It's model number is CS85A and it weighs 20lbs. Power is 100 watts to an 8" woofer and it also gives you 2 front and rear channels at 25W a piece. MSRP is about $400 I think. Not bad considering you could run your factory deck into it with no problems. You wouldn't even need the line converters. I haven't heard this particular model but all the other Bazookas I have heard worked great.

-Spare tire enclosures sound like crap to me. They use a small driver and higher tuned enclosure to compensate for it to give an even more boomy sound than the Bazooka. They also don't have much volume.

-A seperate sub/amp combo is by far the best. It weighs more (unless you know how to fiberglass in which case it's pretty close) than most tubes and requires a bit more work. However, you can use better drivers. You can do 8's or 10's. I would do a 12. Here's why. To achieve the lightest weight possible you will have to run a smaller enclosure. This will sacrifice output. A larger cone will help to offset that. The difference in weight between a 10 and a 12 are minimal. More noticeable between the 8 and the 12 but the 8 won't give you near the same output. I know how to make light (within reason) enclosures and I'm sure I could give you basic instruction on pulling it off yourself if you decide to go that route. It's hard to estimate cost on ths type of system. DIY enclosure with fiberglass could be around $125. 12" Clarion sub around $150 ($99-$129 for 8" and 10"). DON'T BUY SONY SUBS!!! THEY HAVE SOME PROBLEMS AND SOUND HORRIBLE!!! Cheap amp would be around $300 for something decent.

So where are we at here...

Deck............................$180
Sub..............................$149-$399 (if you go with the tube)
Enclosure......................$0-$125 ($0 if you go with the tube)
Speakers......................$99
Amp.............................$0-$299 (again, if you go with the tube you won't need the amp)

Weight..........................30-40lbs
Cost.............................$678-$852

Andre

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:31 am 
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Good FAQ, I'm glad you posted it up.

I'm not sure I 100% agree on spare tire enclosures in a Swift as I've run a few and it's way less boomy and more musical than the bazooka tubes I have. I've always been running a bit underpowered amp with more musical subs (some PPIs and some JLs) so I guess if you have a sub/amp combo that's meant to move huge volumes of air, that is definetely not my area of expertise and I would take Ms advice.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:52 am 
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Maybe you mean something different from what I'm saying. The spare tire enclosures I'm talking about are made to fit in your spare tire. They typicaly have a small 100W (at the very most) amplifier running a small 6-7" sub. Something like the old Pioneer tswx50 subs. I don't mean something that you build into the well yourself. Something with a decent sub in it, well or not, is infinetly superior IMHO to the spare tire enclosure.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:10 pm 
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Oooooooohhhh... :) I'm so out of date, I forgot about those pre-fabbed spare-tire enclosures.

I was indeed talking about custom enclosure, good amp, good sub. :)


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 Post subject: good ideas
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:50 pm 
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it's good that you set out a guideline for all the guys/gals who don't know too much about stereos, to give them a ballpark estimate for costs.. FOLLOW MY ADVICE: DO NOT BUY SONY CAR AUDIO! PERIOD!!! i've suffered for months waiting for my deck to get back for defects 3 times in the year i've had it.. it's only been in my car for 4 months since i bought it in 2002. :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:08 pm 
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i've had a couple budget sony decks, you know, the ones a&b sound use for door crashers, without any problems.. now my koss mp3 deck, that was total junk...

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 Post subject: you're lucky
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:52 pm 
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i envy you, mine's been a total nightmare. It actually crapped out on me again today, took me 20 minutes to rip the thing out. Back for another repair. (at least it's fre.. hehe)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:33 pm 
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When I was selling Sony I had relatively little problems with the decks. I saw one amp so many times that I named it. Subwoofers, I threatened to quit my job if they ordered another one. The only Sony that I would recommend would be their old XES line (around $12k US) and the ES line line. Amps and subs are crap if you ask me.

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 Post subject: yeah
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:05 pm 
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my cousin had the old line, his was great, but in my opinion, the Xplod stuff is terrible... I just haven't met a person yet who hasn't been all cheerful about their sony stuff. oh well...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:51 am 
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I too have done the stereo thing on a budget to my 1.0 Swift. I started just with speakers, replacing the stock ones with 4 JBL 426 GTO's, and I used a Roxul product called 'safe n sound' in behind all 4 speakers, as it is quite dense when compared to regular fiberglass, and we had some of the stuff left over from insulating a floor in the house ... the speakers definetly sounded better than the OEM stuff and that insulation works great. I did have to modify the sheet metal dash support behind the drivers speaker, as the larger magnets of the JBL need more space. After about a week I decided that they just weren't cutting it, and trying to get anything close to base out of such small drivers was ridiculous. A friend of mine works at Canadian Tire, and he mentioned to me that they sold a KOSS bass tube that was actually pretty decent, and to not be afraid of the cheap ass name. It also helped that it was only 130 CDN dollars, and they have a no questions asked return policy. This thing acutally has suprising quality, with a full MDF round tube box, rear port, proper insulation, 8" driver with rubber surround, internal amp with quality hookups and proper fusing, all in all it appeared too good to be true, and the amp was apparently rated for 200 watts, but I think it's likely more like 75. The internal amp also has high speaker inputs, as well as RCA low ins, there is also a gain control and crossover control on the unit, and a power LED. It also had a remote signal, so a hookup to the head unit was a cinch. Also the fact that I didn't need to mount anything, and can pop it out and disconnect it in a few seconds was great. The next thing to get attention was the head unit, as the old one stopped ejecting my cassette adaptor. In went a panasonic MP3 player, with 4x 50 watt output. The system now is way beyond what I thought was possible sound for this car, and several people have been compleatly shocked to hear the quality I get out of the system. In my opinion, the secret is in the details... solder all connections, use decent wire for all hookups to reduce interference and noise, and take great care in the insulation and mounting of any drivers. I couldn't be happier with the sound, and if I want, the 8" sub can get the car thumping enough to cause embarasment. All for $550.00 canadian.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:20 am 
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I am looking at doing pioneer mp3 deck and front speakers. However what about door speakers? Can they be done in the swift? What do you recommend? I am not interested in buying a sub or amp.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:24 am 
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Door speakers can be done but you will need to do door pods for them. There is also a FAQ on building these too. Try to fit the largest speaker you can if your going to do a pod.In your case it would be a 6.5" speaker. Of course, just replacing the factory speakers with higher quality units and a CD player would make a big difference. Most higher end brands will make something to fit the car and your budget. Pioneer make s nice stuff but you can also check these out:

Alpine
Fusion
Clarion
Kenwood
Rockford Fosgate

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:32 pm 
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alright, well the new swift came with a cd player, an older, but decent sounding alpine deck, the tiny speakers sound half decent, but shortly i'll be gutting most of the interior, largely for weight & to make space, etc..
what about light weight sound dampeners ?
like this stuff ? http://www.b-quiet.com/extreme.html
since lihtan pointed out "floorpan tar sound insulation: 16 lbs" & w/o the carpet, it really doesn't do anything ..
what's the best way to cut noise without resorting to laying down lots of thick heavy carpet ?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:24 am 
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Ear plugs :wink:

But seriously though, if you want to kill panel noise, nearly all solutions on the market work by making the panel heavier. A heavier panel is less likely to transmit sound waves. The only lightweight solution I can think of is some kind of spectral inversion (noise cancellation) device.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:32 am 
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Yup, sound deadening works by adding mass to the panel. The lightweight stuff doesn't work as good as the heavier stuff. In your case I think it would be completely counter productive to remove the weight of the carpet and then cover the floor with B-quiet. Your carpet is probably lighter than the B-quiet once you factor in how much you need. Of course a lot of the interior noise will come from the rear seat area being exposed along with the spare tire well. You may end up having to turn your CD player up a notch to compensate for the noise...that doesn't weigh anything :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 12:42 pm 
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for cheap sound deadening you can use mono foam
i sound deadened the back of my car by using dynamat on the floor of the"trunk" area and by using mono foam in the side panels. When i have spare money i'm going to do the front of the car too. You can kill a lot of raod noise and vibration with even 1 square foot of dynamat over top of your exhaust.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:54 am 
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You might be onto something. Rather than reduce panel flex by making it heavier, brace it against another part of the vehicle with some lightweight material. Done right, you would end up with a metal-foam composite sandwich that might even slightly stiffen the chassis. Adding insulation also makes it easier to control the interior temperature of the vehicle.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:25 pm 
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MONO foam works but there are a few things to remember...

It will continue to expand when it's curing. Put too much in your fenderwell and it's gonna bulge it out.

If you don't clean the metal that it will be against you run the risk of having it delaminate. I don't need to tell you guys how anoying a squeak can be over [i]every[i] bump you hit and you can't do anything about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:31 pm 
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to revive the old thread, i was working out the #'s, according to lihtan, he removed 16lbs of tar from the floor of his mk2, that's the same weight as 50sq/ft of e-dead or b-quiet (.32lbs per sq/ft) 45mil material. the difference being a rubberized ashpalt w/ aluminum backing vs. 18yo tar.
how do the different materials compare for road noise/vibration reduction ?

i know it sounds a bit counter productive to remove the rear seats and then add sound deadening material, but it was awefully nice having that extra space in my last car, i may still leave them in the mk1 for now, just to help with the noise. I've also found some nice lightweight backing free carpet to stick down directly to the floor (without the insulation). I can't do anything too extreme with the car since it's also our daily driver and my wife has to be comfortable in it as well ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:29 pm 
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Tough to say really. I am really doubting that whatever deadening you use will remove as much noise as having the rear seat in place. I'm sure it will do a bit but you have to remember that the seat is like having 4+ inches of high density foam attached to the car. See if you can find peel n seal. I haven't found it here but it's supposed to be sold at Home Depot and Lowe's. It's a lot cheaper than most deadeners and is supposed to be just as good.

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