TeamSwift

Home of the Suzuki mini-compacts ! Your Home for all things Suzuki Swift, Geo Metro, Holden Barina, Chevy Sprint, Pontiac Firefly, and Suzuki Cultus. TeamSwift is a technical performance oriented community!
It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:03 am

Underbody braces, turbos and more!

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:49 pm
Posts: 488
Location: Lisbon Portugal
I can´t find any lowering springs for the mk1 here in Europe, none makes them anymore...
So i tought of cutting them, as i´m on a budget and shipping from US or UK would be really painfull...

I did my search but i´m still in a dilema, other option is to "temper" them, is a method that some use to lower the spring by heating them up and compressing them, but i´ve heard some bad things about it...

I don´t mind an harsch ride, it´s not for everyday use, but i don´t want to lower the car at the handling expence...

I know some of you ppl did it, i think nitro did it also...so please tell me your toughts...

I found this very interesting article on it: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread/t-31987.html

--------------------------update 06/05---------------------------

Ignoring all that was said here i send the springs to be "custom lowered" in a shop specialized in springs and work mainly for trucks, they can even make custom springs for my specs... They use a method that if i understand right the springs go to a "hoven", then they are lowered, then they go to the "hoven" again...They used a term i don´t know in english...

I told them if it was possible to lower 60mm and if they could be progressive and they did it...

My first impression is good, the car sits exactly were i want, it handles nice and it´s not as firm as i´ve imagined...and the 195/45r14 also help for the stance...

The only minus so far is the squirqs from the rear axle, i think it comes from the coils rubbing each other, when i removed them they wore wrapped in rubber hose...

_________________
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/557019
Image


Last edited by GroundScraper on Thu May 06, 2004 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 142
Location: kelowna BC
make coilovers, i found cutting springs to suck, bad. looked cool tho,

_________________
-92 metro, too blue too gay, SOLD
-81 Toyota Corona winter beater, R.I.P.
-85 gsx-r R.I.P. (now in liams hands to revive)
-90 GT in a million pieces.....
-CBR600F2 frankenbike
-70 MBenz 280s pimpstress


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 233
Location: Wayne, New Jersey 07470
As long as you remember that everything in any suspension is a compromise, cutting stock springs is a legitimate compromise.

A softer spring will have gentler breakaway but you pay for it with slower transitions and more lean. A slower transition is really only a problem in autocross slaloms. You need fast transitions there. On the street or even a racetrack you can usually predict far enough in advance so that a slow transition is not a big penalty. More lean means that you will need more camber to maintain traction. More camber cuts braking efficiency and wears the inside of the tire on the straights.

So if you want quicker transitions or less camber, you'll need stiffer springs. Stiffer springs will need stiffer shocks to compensate. Stock shocks are tuned to match stock springs, they'll be a little soft but they will also not be prepared to handle the extra heat that a stiff spring will generate in the shock. They will probably wear out quickly.

If you want a stiffer spring, you can cut the stock spring. When you cut a stock spring your choices are limited to what you start with. Cutting 10% off the spring will make the spring about 11% stiffer and make the equilibrium height 10% lower.

What if you want 20% lower but only 10% stiffer?

New springs can give you a specific ride height and a specific stiffness that is not necessarily related to stock springs. But that's only one setting.

What if you want to change ride height to suit specific conditions?

Coilovers will let you pick a spring stiffness and fine tune ride heights (and corner weights) later.

Everything's a compromise, you just need to know which ones are important to you (and I didn't even mention money)

ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: thanx guys...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:49 pm
Posts: 488
Location: Lisbon Portugal
g13b_destroyer: why did you say that? do you have any experience on this? Tell me about it.

mcguirk: I want a stiffer spring, a lower ride height and better handling. Am i just dreaming? I want experiences, ppl that have done this and their opinion...

Ideally would be springs and shocks, or maybe coilovers, but were i live all the suppliers told me that manufacturers don´t make material for this car anymore...my only chance is to order them from US or UK, either way would get expensive...

_________________
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/557019
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 142
Location: kelowna BC
yes, i had my springs cut, alot, the car was pretty damn low. you might of seen some pics of my car. but most handlng characteristics went poopoo, mosty due to the fact that youll be riding around on your bumpstops. if your gonna lower, do it right, making coilovers wasnt that hard to do, and relatively cheap. although i have not tested this out yet becasue i am still in the process of building my car. however, liam had something similar in his car and it works well.

_________________
-92 metro, too blue too gay, SOLD
-81 Toyota Corona winter beater, R.I.P.
-85 gsx-r R.I.P. (now in liams hands to revive)
-90 GT in a million pieces.....
-CBR600F2 frankenbike
-70 MBenz 280s pimpstress


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:49 pm 
Offline
Former TeamSwift Admin
Former TeamSwift Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:58 am
Posts: 8146
Location: Seattle, WA
i cut only a bit off my springs & they worked great, about the same drop & feel as a friends h&r's
of course getting it any lower would have raised the spring-rate considerably more as well ....
if you want to slam your car, it's going to ride like crap unless you spend a LOT re-engineering the suspension .. camber, castor, shorten the shocks, custom springs, etc...

_________________
'92 Swift GT, '94 Swift GT, '88 Turbo Sprint, '98 Swift ... all sold years ago


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 233
Location: Wayne, New Jersey 07470
You can get stiffer springs, lower ride height, and better handling all at the same time but you will have to pick your compromises.

I personally like stiffer springs but you have to understand that the car's breakaway characteristics are going to be more abrupt. You'll have to learn to be a better driver to be as good as you were with softer springs.

If you want good tire wear on the street you probably cannot go much more than 2 degrees of camber. You would need outrageously stiff springs to limit your car's lean angle to 2 degrees.

My Rx7 racecar needed 6 degrees of camber with 350F/250R springs. When I went up to 450F/325R I only need 3 degrees camber. The car's breakaway is MUCH more abrupt and slight mistakes in car setup are MUCH more degrading but the handling limit is a little higher.

I have decided I am not spending my racing budget on my Swift. My low dollar approach to Swift handling this Spring will probably be to cut 1 or 1.5 coils off all springs. Camber bolts to get front camber to about 2 degrees. And probably a rear swaybar only.

My swift is just my sporty street car. I hope that will get me to balanced street performance.

If I decide to spend money on my Swift, the biggest benefits would be from an LSD and adjustable shocks. I don't like shocks you have to remove to change settings so I would probably only be happy with GAB adjustable shocks. Both of these choices are really expensive. Maybe too expensive.

ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 142
Location: kelowna BC
camber bolts (eccentric bolts) arent the best idea, they are very finicky and if you ever want to take your front suspension apart your shit outta luck, and gotta go back to the alignment shop. personally i would be pulling out my suspension somewhat fequently. my solution was to slot the upper strut bolt holes. that way you can take out the suspension and leave in the upper pillow mount in, your alignment settings will remain somewhat the same.

back on topic, dont forget, you get what you pay for, cut springs can be ghetto, esp if you want to go reallly low.

_________________
-92 metro, too blue too gay, SOLD
-81 Toyota Corona winter beater, R.I.P.
-85 gsx-r R.I.P. (now in liams hands to revive)
-90 GT in a million pieces.....
-CBR600F2 frankenbike
-70 MBenz 280s pimpstress


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 233
Location: Wayne, New Jersey 07470
There are different brands of camber bolts and they install differently.

I have a set on my MR2 that require no cutting or enlarging any holes. They're pretty neat but it's hard to describe. They have an offset narrowed section with a sleeve that goes in like a normal bolt but as you turn the bolt the sleeve rotates to the offset side of the bolt and allows a change to camber.

That car came from a previous owner with a different camber bolt that was nothing but trouble. It would move under hard cornering. This one never moved.

I have the installation instructions with the brand name stored somewhere but I don't know exactly where. I hope I can find the manufacturer and buy some more.

----------------

Any time you make your own modifications, you run the risk of not doing it right. That's why you pay someone else for a product that they have tested to fit properly for your car. If you're not mechanically inclined to learn everything about what changes you intend to do - don't do it.

ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 142
Location: kelowna BC
my point still stands, camber bolts need an alignment everytime you take your suspension apart. they work fine though, its slotting thats kinda sketch.

_________________
-92 metro, too blue too gay, SOLD
-81 Toyota Corona winter beater, R.I.P.
-85 gsx-r R.I.P. (now in liams hands to revive)
-90 GT in a million pieces.....
-CBR600F2 frankenbike
-70 MBenz 280s pimpstress


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 233
Location: Wayne, New Jersey 07470
I went home and found the camber bolts that I use. They do not require any slotting of the suspension.

Stempf automotive's Magna-Cam - 4 bolt set is $46 - 2 bolt is $23
https://www.stempfperformance.com/Moreinfo.asp?PartNum=79&StempfPartNum=41%2D1470&WebName=Front&Stempfseries=

They're not as good as camber plates but they are almost as good. They have never moved a bit on my MR2 even on the track with 8 inch wide wheels.

The bolt is indexed so you could reset your allignment the same whenever you return the bolts to their original condition.

I have simple tools to do my own allignment anyway.

ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 142
Location: kelowna BC
slotting you upper strut bolts essentially gives you camber plates...

an yes i know you dont need to slot the holes to do camber bolts, i was just refering to slotting (strut to spindle bolts) as a bad method.

_________________
-92 metro, too blue too gay, SOLD
-81 Toyota Corona winter beater, R.I.P.
-85 gsx-r R.I.P. (now in liams hands to revive)
-90 GT in a million pieces.....
-CBR600F2 frankenbike
-70 MBenz 280s pimpstress


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 233
Location: Wayne, New Jersey 07470
The other camber bolts that I have seen require some kind of slotting of the holes in order to get the bolts to even fit. That's why I was surprised and pleased to find these camber bolts.

I missed your comment on slotting the upper mount holes. I haven't looked into that area of the Swift yet because all the other cars I have worked on have no clearance to move very far without seriously gutting the upper mount.

ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 142
Location: kelowna BC
ya man, im not disagreeing with you. i hant seen any camber bolt that nee to be slotted, that where i think you lost me. and i did use the slotting of the upper strut bolts in effect creating camber plates. it worked well, i can personally vouch for this.

_________________
-92 metro, too blue too gay, SOLD
-81 Toyota Corona winter beater, R.I.P.
-85 gsx-r R.I.P. (now in liams hands to revive)
-90 GT in a million pieces.....
-CBR600F2 frankenbike
-70 MBenz 280s pimpstress


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:31 pm
Posts: 88
Location: kingston
i dropped my geo like 3 inches with cut springs rides like a wheelbarrow and corners like a stock car .... DONT TEMPER heat and springs make for very bad incidents heat fucks up the spring rate and they can snap during driving so go woth cutting and its only the cost of 2 hours and a cutting wheel

_________________
ImageMY CARDOMAIN !! 4 doors are better then 2 because theres more of me to pass you with !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:44 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Question for Nitro or any others who have cut springs: did you guys bend in the seating coil to match the OEM seating coil angle for the front springs? I am wondering if I can get away with NOT doing it (in the hopes that the spring doesn't unseat under hard loading and unloading), because I am both lazy and worried that I might weaken the spring by heating it up. Any opinions guys?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:24 pm 
Offline
Former TeamSwift Admin
Former TeamSwift Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:58 am
Posts: 8146
Location: Seattle, WA
i didn't bend mine, i also didn't remove enough for them to come fully unloaded when the suspension is fully extended, but it was very close.
if you're at all worried, cut just a little bit off @ a time, test it out, then cut a little bit more off .. easy to remove more, impossible to replace what you've cut off ....

_________________
'92 Swift GT, '94 Swift GT, '88 Turbo Sprint, '98 Swift ... all sold years ago


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:31 pm
Posts: 88
Location: kingston
if i jack my car up the springs are totally unloaded i didn't bend them theres a notch to seat the bottom it and a seating place for the top you just have to kinda hold the spring straight while you lower it its kinda fucked but just get ur hand out b4 its all the way down because if its anything like mine you wont have a hand lol then you just have to be careful when you jack it up to keep tension on the springs if yah need help add me to msn or icq flapjackmax@msn.com or 96633468 for anyone who wants to know about cut springs

_________________
ImageMY CARDOMAIN !! 4 doors are better then 2 because theres more of me to pass you with !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:44 pm
Posts: 222
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
I see, ok then, because I didn't bend mine, and Nitro: I simply followed your recomendation of cutting 1.5 coils off the front and 1.25 off the rear. If it works for you I hope it won't be a problem for me. Thanks guys.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:35 pm
Posts: 3249
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Here is the FAQ for cut springs. Thanks for the info you posted N1tro.

_________________
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:38 pm
Posts: 762
Location: pines
i used a pair of helpers from autozone but i used them the other way around so instead of holding up i used them to compress 2 coils together. the work awsome and i have had no problems with them at all. 2 on each side. just incase somebody is wondering... no they dont come in contact with the inner fender well


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:35 pm
Posts: 3249
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
You mean you used a set of the springs helpers that help sagged springs? But instead you have them holding the springs together? That actually doesn't seem like a half bad idea if you have no problems with it... Pics?

_________________
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:38 pm
Posts: 762
Location: pines
yep, thats exactly what i used. just flipped them upside down so the groove is on top of the coil instead of on the bottom. its just alot of wrench turning but it is worth it. i will show some pics tuesday morning.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:35 pm
Posts: 3249
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Sweet, I just might have to pic some up tomorrow from work. We have them sitting right in front of the parts counter. Now before I get TO carried away (not that THATS ever happened before :roll: ) Are they metal or rubber? Cause if they are rubber, then I know exactly what you are talking about. If they are metal, we might have some of those kicking around.

_________________
GeoZukiGTi wrote:
This makes me wanna hurt someone, really bad. Where's Hitempguy, he's expendable
CJDavE wrote:
You have a girlfriend? :shock:

HiTemp Inc. ....... taking over the world one Sprint Turbo and Swift GTi at a time.

Chassis Flex Motorsports


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:37 pm 
Offline
Former TeamSwift Admin
Former TeamSwift Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:58 am
Posts: 8146
Location: Seattle, WA
i picked up a pair of proper coil spring compressors at harbor freight (same as princess auto) for $12 .. or you can borrow them for free from canadian tire, but you have to put down a big deposit and the ones i borrowed when i did mine were far WORSE then the ones from harbor frieght

_________________
'92 Swift GT, '94 Swift GT, '88 Turbo Sprint, '98 Swift ... all sold years ago


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group