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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:32 am 
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just wondering what the difference is between the notches for the I & E on each pulley ? eg. if they're half a tooth difference, couldn't we just move the pulleys to the seconday notch (the E position on the intake cam, & the I position on the exhaust cam) and then re-install the belt .. i'm assuming there's some subtle difference between the I & E positions, otherwise suzuki would have only had the one position on each gear.
according to some old posts
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php? ... =cam+gears
+4 intake & +2 exhaust was what kyle & others have run & i know lars was running even more advance. i found i had much better initial throttle response w/ my cams accidently advanced a whole tooth (at the drive gear), however, due to having WAY too much timing advance & maybe way too much cam advance, it was falling on it's face when getting up to the actual powerband.
has anyone looked into this ?
if nothing else, i'd like to be able to get a new notch put into my stock gears giving me the +4/+2 positions. doesn't seem like rocket science.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:31 am 
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You can go with the +4/+2, but I don't know why you would deliberately open up the the lobe center angle. If anything, I would go +4 intake, +4, or even +6 on the exhaust. Maintain, or close up the lobe center, and advance the base valve timing across the board. That should give you the best bang for the buck, and the pull down low that you are looking for. Opening up the lobe center, and advacing the intake more at the same time is kinda like partially cancelling one move with the other. If you were running real long duration cams, or a turbo, then I could see it, but you wouldn't want to advance the intake too much.


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 Post subject: cam gears
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:48 am 
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the intake is 2 degrees out compared to exhaust. i can't remember if it was advanced or retarded.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:20 am 
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well with flipping the gears we could advance them both by 4.5 degrees at zero cost ... but i would like to know the best way to do it .. i can't see a machine shop charging too much for putting a new 3rd notch in each gear if required. certainly a big savings over adjustable cam gears

why should the sohc guys get to have all the fun ;)

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 Post subject: gears
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:02 pm 
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yeah i thought the same thing. i can't rememebr what was the problem. i think if change them both it retards timing.

cam gears with extra slots in them are a great idea. that is basically what we do with ajustable gears.

but aligning that slot is the trickey part, but very trival to do once set up. a rotary table on a standard milling machine would be simple.

have a "few" different slots cut in gear. for anything from 1 to 6 degrees. and then some dyno time

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 5:49 pm 
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OK, I degreed this for Weoh, a few weeks ago. The exhaust setting is 4 degrees advanced, compared to the intake setting. If you were to swap the in/ex. esettings, you would advance the intake 4 degrees, and retard the exhaust 4 degrees, and alter the lobe centers by 8 degrees. Nobody wants that, so you can use the exh. setting on the intake side, and mod the exhaust sprocket to go at least 4 degrees advanced from the exh. setting, or 8 degrees up from the standard int. setting, and move the whole thing 4 degrees, and maintain lobe centers. That should give you the torque that you're looking for.

So I guess the question is, who is going to be the guinea pig? I'm handicapped with my 3cyl. motors, so I can't do it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 7:09 pm 
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I think someone needs to donate an old GT head to Mike so he can come up with some go fast goodies for the old school gang :razz: :razz:

Later,
Mike 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:15 pm 
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I tried ten ways from Sunday on the dyno for mine. 4 and 2 was best although I might have just stopped after a while figuring turbo was better.... been soo long. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:18 pm 
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Quote:
tried ten ways from Sunday on the dyno for mine. 4 and 2 was best although I might have just stopped after a while figuring turbo was better.... been soo long.


What gears did you use, and did you use a degree wheel to set them, or rely on the marks on the gears?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:27 pm 
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I'll probably need to do this kind of trick to swap the In & Ex cams because my exauss cam broke after 1St cyl without any apparent problem. Im currently disassembling the engine and I'll continue my work during week end...


suprf1y

As you said, its possible to run with 2 intake cams, but my Exauss side cam (an Intake) should be installed in the E. dotch


Sh** cannot do this, cauz of crank sensor & distributor cap !

any idea guys ? I've on hand 2 nearly werked engine (the second one of a friend badly lost oil filter seal while speeding so goods parts are rares) .....

Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:30 pm 
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asking around, doesn't look like there's any actual dynos in victoria, however i think i'll give the cam gear swap a try next week. i'll post some pictures, essentially i figure one of the rotated cam gears will automatically advance the cam 4.5degrees while the other will need to be jumped one tooth to get the 4.5 degrees advance, i'm certain it will shift the powerband a bit lower, but we'll see what it does to the upper rpms.
if anyone wants to donate a gear or two for testing, or if anyone can do the notching, i'll definately guinea pig it ...
i know that gticouple had played around w/ cam gear timing, however, that knowledge seems pretty hard to locate anymore ...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:47 am 
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Quote:
As you said, its possible to run with 2 intake cams



I never said that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:49 am 
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Quote:
while the other will need to be jumped one tooth to get the 4.5 degrees advance


It is way more than 4.5 degrees. Don't do it. If you want a modded one, then maybe I'll make you one this weekend.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:58 am 
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I and E sprokets are exactly the same...each have an I and E cutout

each "tooth" is 20*

HTH,
TGstring

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:15 am 
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Quote:
I and E sprokets are exactly the same...each have an I and E cutout

each "tooth" is 20*



The sprockets are exactly the same. It s the I and E that are different from each other, and allow you to advance the int. cam, by using the exh. setting on the intake side.
Are you sure its 20*/tooth?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:33 am 
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How much advancement are we talking by switching from the I to the E notch on the intake cam? I'm thinking about it, but I just had .030" shaved off my engine head, and I'm afraid of the pistons whacking the valves as it is.

*edit* had to correct some spelling, don't need ya guys makin fun of me :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:56 am 
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well that's just the question .. each notch is ~9-10 degrees, but if the I & E notches vary by half a tooth in their placement ...
it's a bunch of "if"s, i'm off to seattle this weekend but as soon as i get back i'm going to play around a bit :)
suprf1y, sent you a pm :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:26 pm 
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Quote:
don't need ya guys makin fun of me


Gonna do it any way. Are you retarded?
Look back a few posts. I already degreed them.

Quote:
well that's just the question


You too. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:31 pm 
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Quote:
each "tooth" is 20*





Quote:
each notch is ~9-10 degrees


Hmm, which one is it, or is it neither?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:33 pm 
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So, the notches are 9-10 degrees in difference(half tooth). A little agressive for me. Those adjustable cam gears are lookin better every day, but the price is a bit much for so little gain :(.

Suprf1y, you're gonna make me cry with the teasing!!!! :cry:
Hey, at least I'm not Mustard.........


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:04 pm 
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Wow, you really are retarded!
From page 1
Quote:
OK, I degreed this for Weoh, a few weeks ago. The exhaust setting is 4 degrees advanced, compared to the intake setting. If you were to swap the in/ex. esettings, you would advance the intake 4 degrees


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:34 pm 
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Retard the intake, how wants a tractor?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:01 pm 
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Quote:
you would advance the intake 4 degrees


Quote:
Retard the intake, how wants a tractor?


Is it just me, or is this starting to get really funny?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:38 pm 
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Ok, so how much am I retarded oh guru of cam gears? :lol: After my track record on this post, i'd say wayyyy more than 4 degrees. I think I fell off the wagon!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:20 am 
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ok, the cam gears turn @ 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft .. each tooth is MAX of ~9-10 degrees NOT 20 ..
and since the Intake & Exhaust 'cam position notches' are in slightly different positions relative to the 'belt notches' you can use the alternative positions to give you changes less then a whole belt notch.
i'll post some pictures and diagrams next week.
I definately think that some of superf1y's fixed timing advance gears for the gt would be an awesome mod vs. spending the big bucks for fully adjustable gears.

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