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 Post subject: bosch platinum +4
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:36 pm 
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I bought 4 bosch platinum +4 plugs. The problem is that I didn't notice ANY difference. Those plugs are expensive!!! I am now afraid of buying a bigger coil (maybe msd) with a performance ignition wires (8mm) and still won't notice any difference.
what is your advise:
to buy the coil and wires or not.

There is also this thing I frequently read about advanced timing. won't you lose power by advancing the timing because the airmixture is less compressed??? I think it should be retarded to make more power.
thanks.

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 Post subject: ...
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:03 am 
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want my advice?

take those piece of shit spark plugs right back to where you got them from.

Find the copper core NGK factory replacement plugs and install them asap...(and send me the difference for saving you a bunch of cash for THE BEST plugs you can buy for your GTi) :twisted:

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 Post subject: i agree
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:52 am 
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those plugs are a waste of money. ngk copper cores are the best for our cars. i have the copper core with the v groove electrode. these or the original copper cores with the solid cylinder electrode are by far the best and they are dirt cheap! oh by the way what kind of difference were you expecting they are just plugs, all they do is create the spark to ignite the fuel. even if you gained 1-2 hp you would never feel it. i hope you weren't expecting like 10 hp.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:44 am 
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Platinum plugs are not intended as a prformance plug, but they will last much longer than a standard plug. Thats why they are so expensive.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:19 am 
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Copper plugs are supposedly the best in thems of conductivty, but the worst in durability. If you don't mind replacing plugs more often and want the best spark from your plug, go with copper. As for the coil, as long as your factory coil, distributor and plug wires are in healty condition, upgrading your ignition will yield little results (not nearly worth the cost) in most NA engines from stock to mildly tuned. Only when you increase the charge density significantly (ie. high boost forced induction) will you need higher power ignition systems in order to push the electricity across plug gap thru the denser charge. OEM ignition systems that are in healthy condition are more than adequate, even for boost. I've changed coils/wires etc. in a couple of my vintage cars and have only really noticed a difference because they had shoddy, worn out components to begin with. On my NA Supra (single coil, distributor fired), it did diddly squat. For my turbo, Toyota went with distributorless direct fire multi coil system, and guys don't touch it even for high power builds, so I won't. About the advanced timing bit, apparently, if I remember correctly, advanced timing helps because the charge is ignited earlier in the hopes that by the time the charge burns to the point to yield maximum cylinder pressure, the piston will be at the start of its journey downward on its power stroke, therefore maximizing the combustion's grunt in pushing the piston down (someone correct me if I'm wrong or misguided). The condition you are describing would be if timing was severly overadvanced, causing the piston to move upwards against maximum cylinder pressure. At that point, detonation and other nasty forces would be breaking stuff left right and center. So a bit of advance helps, but not too much. I've been told to advance it as far as it would go until the engine started to ping, then back off a bit, but I don't have much faith in this method. I'm sure many guys on this board can tell you the ideal timing that would yield the best power.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:31 am 
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You'll need to upgrade more than the coil if you want to notice a performance improvement in your ignition system. If you replace the whole ignition system in one shot; plugs, wires, coil, ignition box (eg MSD) you will notice a difference. Just because the ignition fires doesn't mean it's burn all your fuel. Everyone I know that has installed a full MSD system has noticed a performance improvement. Myself included. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:53 am 
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I wouldn't put german plugs in any Japanese car, only in a BMW, volkswangen, Benz, etc.

when Suzuki builds and enginners the engines, they do it using domestic parts, like denso and NGK.

I use NGK Iridiums in my Acura, they are awsome plugs, very consistant. and my tercel i use copper NGK's, also work very well.


I've heard the denso iridiums are better than NGK.
Anyone tried iridiums in a swift?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:47 am 
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mac wrote:
I've heard the denso iridiums are better than NGK.
Anyone tried iridiums in a swift?

I've heard that NGK's iridiums are made by Denso. :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:33 pm 
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Gasoline Fumes wrote:
mac wrote:
I've heard the denso iridiums are better than NGK.
Anyone tried iridiums in a swift?

I've heard that NGK's iridiums are made by Denso. :?


could be, i heard that on this forum of idiots, but its the only forum for my car :?(Edit: not this forum, a differant one)

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Last edited by mac on Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:09 pm 
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mac wrote:
I wouldn't put german plugs in any Japanese car, only in a BMW, volkswangen, Benz, etc.


So do you fill with Japanese 100 octane? and would you use Japanese tires if they were made from Sri Lankan rubber? Cars these days are a whole lot international than you may think, and gone are the days when ppl could ally under a brand name and a country at the same time; just look at who really owns some of the car labels and you will know what I mean. Just because a part doesn't have the same country of "origin" as a car doesn't mean it's not good stuff. True, I dont like bosch plugs, but NOT because they are German, its because the set that I had nearly stripped the threads on one of my Supras (and yes, it was the right part number). Engineers are not the only ones who have say in what goes into a car (not by a long shot); parts contracts and cost control measures have say in what goes into our cars, and usually car companies will be contracted with local parts manufactuers for most of their parts, and those contracts from yesteryear are still honored today. If Suzuki had a contract for cheaper, nearly equal plugs from Champion, I'd bet we'd be pulling those from the OEM heads.

mac wrote:
i heard that on this forum of idiots, but its the only forum for my car


That's very positive. Sure some ppl (like me) may say dissagreeable things, but no need to say we are idiots. You should be careful that your 'technical' inputs don't get label under your own conclusion.

Lihtan, it was a one shot deal with my NA, but I didn't notice much besides slightly smoother idling for the first 500 kms. I believe that the stock ignition was very capable of igniting all the fuel, as I doubt that many car companies, especially Toyota ( :P ), would put an inefficient OEM ignition that couldn't burn up all the fuel. Imagine what that would do for stringent emmisions standards and fuel milage ratings around the world. I think that enough spark to ignite the charge in question is enough, and any more is overkill. Spark is not what gives power, after all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:49 am 
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turbo3newbie wrote:
...
Lihtan, it was a one shot deal with my NA, but I didn't notice much besides slightly smoother idling for the first 500 kms. I believe that the stock ignition was very capable of igniting all the fuel, as I doubt that many car companies, especially Toyota ( :P ), would put an inefficient OEM ignition that couldn't burn up all the fuel. Imagine what that would do for stringent emmisions standards and fuel milage ratings around the world. I think that enough spark to ignite the charge in question is enough, and any more is overkill. Spark is not what gives power, after all.

I realize that adding a more powerful ignition system won't make the engine suck more air, add more fuel or any other such violations of physics. However, I installed an MSD and I recieved more power. It had to come from somewhere, right? My only answer is that it relentlessly tries to burn as much fuel during combustion as it can. I'm sure OEM ignitions systems are all fairly adequate in their own way, even on modified engines. But like anything that is made in the aftermarket, it can always be better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:59 am 
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instant_shine, there has been alot of contencious talk about spark plugs in the past as I discovered when I did a search of the forums when I was interested in Bosch Plugs. So do a search if you want more info but the general consensus which has already been answered here is to stick with NGK's and avoid Bosch.

I recall reading on the Bosch site that some Suzukis actually came with Bosch plugs OEM.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:11 am 
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i've personally never found bosch to make a bad plug, nor have i found that they act badly in japanese engines.

the physical nature of high voltage arcs make them prefer sharp, multiple edges on electrodes. as the high voltage travels down the outer molecules of the conducting electrode, thick, thin, or whatever, the voltage will find the closest and sharpest point to arc to ground.

the newer style u-channel electrodes, split electrodes, whatever, are just modifying the geometric shape of the electrode to provide more sharp edges. copper, chromium steel, platinum, iridium, etc. are all acceptable materials for the electrode with the bottom line being hardness and available electrons in the outer valence shell. soft material like copper, although it's a fine conductor, is on the soft side as far as metals go and is more subject to erosion in spark plug duty which is why they usually don't last as long as harder materials.

some of the old bosch 2 stroke plugs i used to use in my saab 3 cylinder engines had 4 ground electrodes and a recessed center electrode to prevent fouling. the bosch platinum plugs use a tiny platinum wire in a ceramic tip to allow carbonized oil to spall off the tip to prevent oil fouling. the ngk iridium plugs also use a tiny center electrode with an extrusion forged tip (sharp edges) to accomplish the same end.

the spark generated by a plug varies with the distance of the gap, wider gap - hotter spark. it's the electromotive force (voltage) behind the plug that determines how far the spark can jump and how hot it will be. a weak coil with a secondary voltage of 20 - 25 kilovolts will ignite a weaker flamefront than a higher output coil of say 50 kilovolts. timing, compression, head/ piston/ combustion chamber design, and fuel quality make up the other factors. (on the subject of fuel, higher octane fuel burns slower than lower octane resulting in a more stable and controlled flamefront which burns more completely and efficiently.)

with the exception of champion and the odd autolight plugs i've never really run into a sparkplug that didn't get the job done. i've just always used ngk plugs in newer machinery because i find them to have a broader heat range application and think that overall, they are a high quality device. i'm currently running ngk iridiums in both my 3 bangers and have no complaints but wouldn't have any qualms about dialing in a set of bosch platinums either.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:28 pm 
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turbo3newbie wrote:
mac wrote:
I wouldn't put german plugs in any Japanese car, only in a BMW, volkswangen, Benz, etc.


So do you fill with Japanese 100 octane? and would you use Japanese tires if they were made from Sri Lankan rubber? Cars these days are a whole lot international than you may think, and gone are the days when ppl could ally under a brand name and a country at the same time; just look at who really owns some of the car labels and you will know what I mean. Just because a part doesn't have the same country of "origin" as a car doesn't mean it's not good stuff. True, I dont like bosch plugs, but NOT because they are German, its because the set that I had nearly stripped the threads on one of my Supras (and yes, it was the right part number). Engineers are not the only ones who have say in what goes into a car (not by a long shot); parts contracts and cost control measures have say in what goes into our cars, and usually car companies will be contracted with local parts manufactuers for most of their parts, and those contracts from yesteryear are still honored today. If Suzuki had a contract for cheaper, nearly equal plugs from Champion, I'd bet we'd be pulling those from the OEM heads.

mac wrote:
i heard that on this forum of idiots, but its the only forum for my car


That's very positive. Sure some ppl (like me) may say dissagreeable things, but no need to say we are idiots. You should be careful that your 'technical' inputs don't get label under your own conclusion.

Lihtan, it was a one shot deal with my NA, but I didn't notice much besides slightly smoother idling for the first 500 kms. I believe that the stock ignition was very capable of igniting all the fuel, as I doubt that many car companies, especially Toyota ( :P ), would put an inefficient OEM ignition that couldn't burn up all the fuel. Imagine what that would do for stringent emmisions standards and fuel milage ratings around the world. I think that enough spark to ignite the charge in question is enough, and any more is overkill. Spark is not what gives power, after all.


someone always has to disagree, don't they?

First off, let me say when i was talking about a forum of idiots, it WAS NOT this forum I was talking abouit, i find this forum to be the best one i have ever been to. I don't own a swift, but i really like the cars, and i come here because there is good information on alot of things, like M's postings about stereo's and alarm systems for example.

octane and tires are poor examples for a counter argument, since tires have remaines unchanged for decades (EG. you can still find tires for a 1950's car at any tire shop) and when a Japanese manufacturer sells a car for the Canadian market, they know we don't have 100 octane gas, but they do know we can get NGK and Denso plugs, if not from canadian tire, then from the dealership.

finally, the reason i say its better to use Japanese plugs on a Japanese car is from experiance, and talking to mechanics, I ran AC delco, Bosch platinum and +4 plugs in my Tercel, but i found the plain-jane NGK V-grove spark plugs work the best, less fouling, more consistant, better idle, etc. same thing with my Acura, when i wen't from Boshe platinum plugs to NGK iridiums, it ran better, sounded better, smoother, etc.
another example, talking to a BMW mechanic he said the E30 BMW's run like crap with Platinum bosch plugs, hes seen them come in lots of times with a work order saying "runs rough" every time it was because of platinum plugs. hes also workes on lots of vehichles in his spare time for friends and family, he finds American plugs work well with american cars, same with German and Japanese cars. The mechanic around the corner said essentially the same thing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:34 pm 
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oh yeah, did i ever mention i had a bosch plug where the ceramic could spin freely of the threaded meatal part? or the bosch wires where i wen't to pull the boot off the plug and the connecter tore free off the lead and satyed on the plug? Kwality.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:19 pm 
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hey mac,

i think we all have formed our own notions of what we like and what we don't. here in the usa we have long called lucas the "prince of darkness" and made a joke about the reason brit's drink warm beer - "their refrigerators are made by lucas." triumph motorcycles in the late 60s and early 70s were well known for poor charging systems and anyone who rode a triumph, bsa, or norton kept a ready stock of rectifiers and an odd spanner in their kit with which to change it.

then in the 60s when saab sourced their parts from hella, bosch, and lucas we where aghast at the fact that we had to deal with that battle once again. i had the same original equipment headlights made by lucas in my car for over 20 years without a problem.

in the early 60s in the usa, "made in japan" labeled any item as a poorly made and inferior product. today, japanese manufacture is a mark of quality in design and execution.

i highly doubt that the country of manufacture plays any part in this day and age in the quality or lack there-of in any part. there is such a worldwide sharing of design and manufacturing information that loyalty to any one country's product over another is but a matter of personal choice.

i would only advise that you do whatever makes you happy. if you don't like bosch products, don't use them (that is if you can find any car that doesn't use something that doesn't at least license a bosch patented product or process.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:07 pm 
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t3 ragtop wrote:
i highly doubt that the country of manufacture plays any part in this day and age in the quality or lack there-of in any part. there is such a worldwide sharing of design and manufacturing information that loyalty to any one country's product over another is but a matter of personal choice.


Well put; I suspect, t3 ragtop, from your broad-minded approach to automotives and your sense or motor memorbillia that you have been around cars and bikes for a long time... :o


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:10 am 
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all T3 ragtop did try to undermine my credibility and then make himself look credible with examples of opinions of the past, but he did it in a non argumentative way, then you praised him, in a further attempt to undermine my argument.

fact of the matter is, Ragtop favours Bosch products in all circumstances, and dosn't agree with what i said, but rather than just say he disagrees, he decided to be indirect about it.

now, on to my counter argument:

Quote:
i highly doubt that the country of manufacture plays any part in this day and age in the quality or lack there-of in any part. there is such a worldwide sharing of design and manufacturing information that loyalty to any one country's product over another is but a matter of personal choice.


I disagree, looking through the parts on cars, i find my acura, and my tercel filled with parts made by Mitsuba, TEC, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, etc.
think about it, would you import parts from Germany, to Japan for your car? say you do this, now spark plugs cost and extra $3 per car due to shipping, now you manufacture 50,000 cars, how much does $3 turn into? $150,000, thats alot of money, and even more money once you start manufacturing cars in the millions, its not so much a matter of loyalty, but as what will do the same job cheaper.

as for cars that are manufactured here, they are only assembeled here with parts made in Japan to avoid paying importing taxes if they shipped a complete car here, but they will use parts made here like tires and batterys because its cheaper to use parts made here then to ship Japanese Batterys and tires to Canada, its all about cost.

Manufacturers do not share info on products, since they spend millions on R&D for products, they want to get their money back on their work, not give the idea away for someone else to make money off of.

I don't know why this isn't common sense to people that a Jpanese manufactuerer would use Japanese parts. also, if you know about economics, you'll know in Japan they are very loyal to each other when it comes to doing business, and generally prefer to do business with a domestic manufacturer.


To conclude, if you want to put German plugs in your car, go for it, but if you want my advice, use NGK or denso plugs, if you don't want my advice, thats fine by me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:18 am 
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i've twice fallen into the platinum 'scam' .. i tried the bosch +4's in my volvo wagon w/ it's high compression b23e egine and instead of running like it'd just gotten a tuneup, it ran like crap, threw in some cheap autolite copper plugs & she was purring like a kitten again ..
for the swift i expected it to be more modern & able to make better use of some platinum plugs, again, it was having more frequent misfires w/ the new plugs, so i swapped in some new ngk "power-v" copper plugs and the car runs smooth, i also gap them a little wider then spec ~.032-.034, the stock ignition system seems more then capable .. maybe i'll play around again if i upgrade to an aurora cd system ...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:13 pm 
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mac wrote:
all T3 ragtop did try to undermine my credibility and then make himself look credible with examples of opinions of the past, but he did it in a non argumentative way, then you praised him, in a further attempt to undermine my argument.


I mentioned that t3ragtop comes off as a person who's been around cars for a long time. His opinions may not be agreeable all the time, but are backed by a broad sense of autmotive knowledge and, especially when it comes to thermodynamics, engineering principles. He makes a great person to either learn from or a challengining person to debate with. Asking the 'corner mechanic' for his opinion and relaying that here does not come off as someone who has played with cars for long. I believe your stark opinions undemine your own credibility.

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?p=67019#67019

mac wrote:
as for cars that are manufactured here, they are only assembled here with parts made in Japan to avoid paying importing taxes if they shipped a complete car here, but they will use parts made here like tires and batterys because its cheaper to use parts made here then to ship Japanese Batterys and tires to Canada, its all about cost.


Umm, actually it's to get around free trade agreement tariffs to market all over North America and to take advantage of cheaper labour costs here. Why do you think Beetles are made in Mexico? A better example yet is Ford building Focuses in Mexico with American/Mexican made parts, only to be sold back all over North America; No tariffs, cheap labor.

mac wrote:
I don't know why this isn't common sense to people that a Jpanese manufactuerer would use Japanese parts. also, if you know about economics, you'll know in Japan they are very loyal to each other when it comes to doing business, and generally prefer to do business with a domestic manufacturer.


I don't know when the last time you were doing business in Japan, or if you were getting this knowledge of Japanese culture from the Last Samurai, nor do I know your degree of economic knowledge. I have a Bachelor of Commerce, and if you knew anything about Asian economy, especially automotive, you'd know that the Japanese economy is in reccession, and that all major Japanese manufacturers are pushing, and thriving, from both international manufacturing and international financial backing (Ford owns controlling share of Mazda, in case you didn't know). This is not Fuedal Japan of the 1600's; Japanese economy is a fierce dog-eat-dog world just as much as it is here. By the way, your Tercel will have mainly Nippon Denso stuff in it. Why? because Toyota owns controlling share of Denso, and Denso also supplies manufactuers all over the world like Ford-owned Jaguar. I know a thing or two, maybe not much, about Toyotas. I had a beater 85 Tercel hatchback when I was 14 that I maintained myself (Daddy was a mechanic, so I grew up to gas fumes), then my first Supra when I was 16 and have loved to drive Toyotas (and ride Hondas) ever since.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:30 pm 
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what the hell is your problem? all i said is that i wouldn't put german plus in a Japanese car and you attacked my statement with crap about sri lanken tires and 100 octane gas.

and now its turned into this huge argument because i explained why i thought it was a bad idea, then ragtop basically said i was wrong because he likes bosch, and rather than make your own counter argument, you just sided with him.

the "corner mechanic" as you call him has been a mechanic for over 25 years, wouldn't you agree that after that long working on cars that he would know what hes talking about? BMW mechanic has been working on cars for 40 years.

the post about corner balancing, i said its the ultimate weapon, and you said it wasn't because you asssumed for some reason that I was implying you should lower you car with the coilovers to the point of disrupting your cars geometry, then corner balance it, no shit doing it that way isn't any ultimate weapon.

cars are made in Mexico is more to do with NAFTA and WTO agreements, not just cheaper labour, otherwise, why would honda and Toyota be building and expanding in north america? notice that its only american car companies that build there, which is due in part of the Summit of Americas.

and last i checked, commerce wasn't economics and you would have to have been living under a rock not to know the Japanese economy is in reccession. all countrys prefer doing business within themselves, (denso parts in Toyota, Bosch parts in BMW) because buying parts from other countrys lowers the value of your currency, and when done on a large scale it will make a noticable impact. why do you think everything in the statest says "made in USA" its so buyers will buy american made products rather than forign ones. remember how people complained about NAFTA being a big bust because all it did was alow more american products to be sold in Canada, and is blamed in part for the low canadian dollar its because buying forign products will lower the value of your currency.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:20 pm 
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Location: columbus, ohio
hi mac,

man, i'm not saying that you're wrong. i enjoy a lively discussion and everyone is welcome to their opinion. i respect yours. i was just saying that i have held pre-conceptions on matters of manufacture before only to find later that i had to change them as things shattered the myths.

right here in the area that i live, honda built a huge factory complex that builds engines, accords, lawnmowers, and goldwing motorcycles. imagine that! a japanese company that builds cars in the states. there has arisen a cottage industry of suppliers - stanley electric who provide lighting products, another aluminum products plant that turns out radiators, ac condensers, and suspension components, another that builds seats and alloy wheels. carpeting is sourced locally. paint comes from the ppg paint plant 40 miles from the honda plant. every bit and part is made in the usa and assembled into a japanese product. many of the cars are even shipped back to japan for sale there. they hardly ship parts from japan to be assembled here, nor do they do that in europe. suzuki has a plant in budapest, hungary that builds swifts for the european market and they manufacture or source every component locally (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 06864&rd=1)
i beg to differ with your colonial view. it's a global marketplace and the days of localized manufacture have gone the way of the horse and buggy. bmws are built in georgia, land of america - jaguars are fords - mercedes are built in detroit.

i never meant for anything i said to strike you as an attack - far from that - i enjoy the banter too much to be an asshole in public :lol:

we may have different opinions, and the rules of debate call for each of us to state them, but i would never presume to use any approach to persuade you to take a diiferent view that could be construed as an infringement on your right to your own opinion. but i will certainly try to make you see my point :lol:

i was also not taking any side with anyone else. i may agree with a certain point of view, but i have my own opinions and i don't usually shy away from stating them.

please accept my apology if i've offended you, sir. it was not my intent, but i do enjoy a lively discussion.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:20 am 
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
mac wrote:
what the hell is your problem?


Nothing really, just had a lunch break at work with nothing to do but challenge some unfounded comments. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers.

mac wrote:
the post about corner balancing, i said its the ultimate weapon, and you said it wasn't because you asssumed for some reason that I was implying you should lower you car with the coilovers to the point of disrupting your cars geometry, then corner balance it, no sh!t doing it that way isn't any ultimate weapon.


:lol: If you thought that's what I am implying, then you still don't understand the point of why a car is corner balanced. That's ok.


mac wrote:
cars are made in Mexico is more to do with NAFTA and WTO agreements, not just cheaper labour, otherwise, why would honda and Toyota be building and expanding in north america?


Some of my personal friends work in a Toyota manufacturing plant in Hokkaido, and living expenses and therefore wages are higher than those in parts of Canada and, most likely but not sure, the U.S, and cost of living and wages in Hokkaido are a lot lower than many places in Japan (my ex is from a small town in Hokkaido near the plant). Also, Locating financial HQ's in North America takes advantage of North American production management styles and financial/marketing brainpower that is much more suited to North American markets, and likewise for other parts of the world such as Europe. That is why the financial HQ's for the US arms of all the major car manufactuers are found in L.A., all on the same street (my aunt is a retired senior financial director for Nissan, USA).

mac wrote:
notice that its only american car companies that build there, which is due in part of the Summit of Americas.

Umm, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen all have facilites in Mexico...


mac wrote:
and last i checked, commerce wasn't economics and you would have to have been living under a rock not to know the Japanese economy is in reccession.


Do yourself a favor and check how much Economic study goes into the average Commerce course requirements of any major Canadian University, let alone the economic electives I have studied on top of that. I may not be an Economics major, but even for someone with an Information Systems major with a minor in Management Science would have enough common sense to realize that keeping the entire operations of a large, multinational company, even when it comes to sourcing parts, within a sigle country for the sake of loyalty makes little economic sense with regards to being competitive.

mac wrote:
all countrys prefer doing business within themselves, (denso parts in Toyota, Bosch parts in BMW) because buying parts from other countrys lowers the value of your currency, and when done on a large scale it will make a noticable impact. why do you think everything in the statest says "made in USA" its so buyers will buy american made products rather than forign ones. remember how people complained about NAFTA being a big bust because all it did was alow more american products to be sold in Canada, and is blamed in part for the low canadian dollar its because buying forign products will lower the value of your currency.


Once again, pick up a book and do some reading. A lot of factors go into inflation, including GDP, Goverment policies and spending/borrowing of all sorts, Interest rates, etc. etc. Economists have tried to come up with theories for thousands of years since the invention of currency in Mesapotamia to explain and control inflation, and they obviously have not succeeded. I'm sure they would all awake from the grave if they knew that mac had the answer on teamswift.net.

Sorry if you are offended, but since the original question had already been pretty much answered. I felt in the mood for a good debate. Admins, if you frown upon this, please lock this thread.


Last edited by turbo3newbie on Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:31 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA
debates are good, personal attacks bad ..
thread's not getting locked :P

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