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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:13 pm 
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My service manual is in a different city unfortunately so I can't track this stuff down. I'm also behind some firewalled firewall and haven't had any luck going to the ftp server for an online version, sooo...<br><br>My car has always been occasionally inconsistent with turning over the starter. Self diagnosis so far... <br><br>Starts fine when it's working, when it doesn't it makes the typical battery low "click". My charging system is 100% and the battery is good. Also of note is that if I give 12 volts to the starter switch it will fire 110% of the time. The problem then of course is that the switch in the car is not giving me 12 volts consistently. The big wire is 12 volts all the time, but the one from the ignition switch or wherever is more like 6.7 volts when it doesn't work, and just under 10 volts when it does (from measuring while trying to turn over). <br><br>I'm assuming ignition switch or ground or? <br><br>I'm going to hook up a relay of my own one way or another as it shouldn't take much voltage to switch the relay and it would be nice if the starter saw 12 volts instead of 10 when it was turning over... however, I'd like to figure out why it's so inconsistent right now.<br><br>thoughts/diagrams/etc? <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:44 am 
incosistant voltage, and besides the fact that its under 12v is sounding like a ground thats not solid. the 10 is much a problem it usualy drops that far while cranking atleast thats what mine has always been. but going to 6 definately isnt right. check ground wire contact <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Kyle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:32 am 
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It is the short harness going to the key. The switch is worn. The contacts wear down and get fouled. I have tried opening it up and cleaning. It fixes it for a little while. The better solution is replacing that short section.<br>Problem: They do not sell just that section new at the dealer. They say it is part of the Main harness. Can we say $$$. I went to the salvage yard and found a 94 Metro with low miles and removed the part. Fixed the problem.<br>I used this one for two reasons. One low miles = low use. Two Metro smaller engine = Less voltage and amps run thru it.<br>This has been a problem for all Swifts. I wish we could find the part new. Or even a heavy duty version.<br>For now. I guess we need to contend with used parts and bandages. (relay fix)<br>If this helps and you can think of something else to do. Let me know. I am stumped at finding another way. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:54 pm 
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Sounds like the switch is worn and getting poor contact inside.. I would just replace it... I think i have a spare if you can't locate one. <p>"Don't argue with stupid people. They just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience"</p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:08 pm 
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Thanks for the tips guys. I'll try the relay to see if it will help a pooched switch. If it works, then that'll be nice just as a safety. I'll see if I have a spare switch to swap in... <br><br>Worked more hours than I thought were in a day today... hopefully tommorrow or Friday.<br><br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:35 pm 
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Made a post that basically summed this up in the general section under some hard to find thread. In case anybody is wondering what I've found so far... There still may be more, I would need my manual back to find more though.<br><br>---------------<br>Part of the problem is here... there ends up being a resistance from the fricking switch due to crappy design + too much use. I dissassembled the back of the starter switch which is likely a big part of the problem. You can notice the big notches in what you would not want notches in.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/teamswift/starter.html">www.angelfire.com/ky3/tea...arter.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>3 quick options<br><br>1) Bend over for Suzuki and buy a new starter switch. Seeing as this is likely a problem for 100 people on here, we should be able to organize a group buy. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>2) Don't fix the problem, and use a relay. The resistance will still be there occasionally and thus there will still be lower voltage to that wire occasionally. However, the hope is that the 6-7 volts that the relay sees when the switch is f-ing up that it will be enough to click it over to the big wire you've attached to your relay straight to the battery for a full 12 volts. After all, it is easier to move a small dinky relay than it is to move the solenoid for the starter. This is part band-aid, part good to do regardless. The good is that the bigger wire should now supply full voltage to the starter switch under cranking at all times. The bad is that the 6-7 volts the relay gets may not be enough to click it over and your original problem may still be there. <br><br>Seeing as this option cost me $2 for a relay and some time, I've tried it now and it worked after but I won't know if it will truly be effective for a few days.<br><br>3) Forget the switch and have your car start via a button. Benefits: This would be cool. Downside: None if done so that you still need your key. Did I mention that this would just simply be cool?<br><br>Anyway you do it... starter switch on these cars as they get older sucks.<br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 5:01 am 
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Wich switch are you talking about ? The solenoid switch on the starter, or the electronic switch on the steering linked to the key switch ? <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:58 am 
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You mean I have been replacing solonoids for nothing? aaaaaaaaargh! <p>Tony<br><br>Proud owner of<br>1970 AMX 360/auto with A/C<br>1989 Suzuki Swift GTi<br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Steering wheel mounted
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:23 pm 
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It is the key turned switched.<br>Kyle, How much are they in Canada? They only want to sell the main harness here in the US. Will they sell just the harness in from the key. <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:50 pm 
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The soft copper goofy japanese puzzle in behind the key. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> I'll be at Suzuki tommorrow picking up some maintenance items, I'll ask what is available for a replacement. <br><br>Be careful if you decide to examine your switch as springs/balls/copper will go flying everywhere. <br><br>Relay is working well so far I might add... hasn't done it on 30+ tries since (it would go about half the time before), although.... I still don't like that worn out copper. Perhaps the relay will just be a nice addition to the starter button I add once Suzuki tells me I have to buy the main harness like 92GT is mentioning. <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:01 pm 
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hey kyle, while you're down @ suzuki, want to see if they can order one of these lower front extensions ?<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://redlinegti.com/index.php?p=car&c=manu">redlinegti.com/index.php?p=car&c=manu</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>=D <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: starter switch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:20 am 
Congratulations on selecting the relay.<br>If you check the voltage going to the new relay coil<br>its a full 12v.<br>The relay coil only uses about 50ma, whereas the<br>starter solenoid uses over 20x more current.<br><br>Your ign switch "start mode" will now outlast the car.<br><br>(although your idea of adding a push button on<br>the dash to energize the relay eliminates all<br>ign switch use in starting..+good anti-theft idea)<br><br>Keep up the good work..<br><br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: starter switch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:00 am 
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Hey Kyle I was thinking about this thread last night. Why is it that when it clicks I rock the car and putit in gear the car will start no problem. This is why I keep thinking it is the solonoid. can you email me the diagram you used on the relay? Where did you mount it? <p>Tony<br><br>Proud owner of<br>1970 AMX 360/auto with A/C<br>1989 Suzuki Swift GTi<br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: re:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:19 pm 
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$260CDN for starter switch from Suzuki or $200 CDN if there is a group of 5 people or more. <br><br>Tony- perhaps the vibration of moving the car was enough to make the switch work. I really don't think it is the solenoid... at least not in my case. I took off both starters that 'clicked' and hot-wired them both to a battery and they both fired 100% of the time when tested. There-fore... no problems activating the solenoid when there is sufficient voltage. The problem is that when I tested the small wire that tells the starter to fire OFF the starter, it would still get inconsistent voltage meaning a ressitance of sorts. Even without the drain of the starter solenoid it would be 6 volts... meaning, problem must be in the switch. <br><br>Now, if I am remembering wrong and I didn't test the voltage off the starter as well as on the starter, we could just simply say that the starter solenoid was hogging the voltage and it doesn't mean that it is bad, just that the starter solenoid needs a clean voltage source to work properly. <br><br>So, in either case, once again... relay a good thing.<br><br>I'll take some pics of where I put it, and make up a wiring diagram to post. It still has yet to have problems starting. <br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Congratulations on selecting the relay.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>What do I win?? <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:12 pm 
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did you try running a newer heavier gauge wire from the ignition to the starter? Maybe that would eliminate the voltage drop? <p>Tony<br><br>Proud owner of<br>1970 AMX 360/auto with A/C<br>1989 Suzuki Swift GTi<br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Kyle
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:59 pm 
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Are the newer Swifts using the same part? Or any other car/truck.<br>I do know once you get a good switch. Put the relay in. That way you would not need to worry about it anymore. A remote starter button would be nice as backup. <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:51 pm 
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The relay allows you to run larger gauge wire right off the battery while just using that crappy little wire to switch the relay. I used 10 gauge within a few feet from the battery. The 10 gauge should be over-kill for a solenoid and it is far better than the 16 gauge wire that comes from I'm not sure where. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Pics sometime this weekend. Tried to hide it more than anything. <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:15 am 
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on a side note, the car i have has a wire from the starter to the battery, 16gauge with a switch on it, i put the switch on my rear wiper water switch, thats what i use to start the car... <p></p><i></i>


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 Post subject: Re: Kyle
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:28 am 
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Have pics of the wiring?<br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 9:49 am 
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no, its realll simple though, you attach a wire to the left plug that goes onto the starter, run it in cabin, put a switch on it then run it to the battery..<br>they had a caveman switch where to touch 2 wires together cause the key broke off in the ignition, i just wired it to the wiper switch...<br><br>to me the car starts easier than turning the key <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:32 am 
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I just don't have confidence that you actually have done it, which is why I wanted to see pics. <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 3:36 pm 
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<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> like i said, i got it wired already, i just ran it on the wiper fluid switch so it wouldnt stay on, i can do things man! i changed my alternater myself the other day!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> without a jack<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :x --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/sick.gif ALT=":x"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> or tools<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :eek --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> just an adjustable and a hammer<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START |I --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tired.gif ALT="|I"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> i onlly ruined one bracket<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> so i tie strapped the alt back in for the time being<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 9:00 pm 
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Poor swift!..poor litle jamaican swift!! hold thight bud, the end is near and the suffering is about to end. Soon you'll rest in heaven amougnt your fellow swift & cultus warriors.<br> <p>Jardamuth<br><br></p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2003 10:48 pm 
The Samurai guys have a good deal of problems with the starter switch and they have blamed the driver for having too heavy of a key chain. Most of the guys I know have really light key rings. I would also imagine it being close to the same starter switch, so maybe that may help in the key switch in lasting a little longer. <p>Proud owner 2000 Metro poor mans special edition, 1984 Suzuki SJ410 poor mans rockcrawler (needs turbo 1L), 1992 Ford Aerostar Cargo van(The big white piggy, needs more dents and scars), 1964 POS Baja VW (needs to be put back together).</p><i></i>


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:02 am 
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Heavy key chains are never really a good thing, but they don't conrtibute to the wearing out of the contacts. I'd have to take some pics to explain it quickly.<br><br> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="font-size:xx-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Kyle Jones<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/de/ksj/myswift.html"><br>Junk-Yard Turbo set-up, formerly NOS-fed, constantly evolving 1989 Suzuki Swift</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>


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