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Underbody braces, turbos and more!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:49 pm 
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Had a hell of a time getting my old filter off. I eventually had to spear the filter twice with a screwdriver then twist it hard to get it to come off. Anyway, Canadian Tire is having a clearance sale on their old Motomaster Formula 1 premium oil filter. The Formula 1 filter for the Ford V8, part number F1-8A, is on sale for $1.50! Yes, I know, they're made by Fram and I should be neutered for using one, but for a buck and a half, I got myself nice, really oversized filter. I think I'll go back tomorrow and grab a few more of these while they still have 'em. In hindsight, I should have poured some oil into the filter before I installed it. I started it the first time, ran a few seconds, no oil pressure. Tried it again, same. I unplugged the coil wire and cranked the engine for almost 10 seconds and started it the third time. This time it worked.


Last edited by Uncle_Adolf on Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:45 am 
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OK - here's my question - after pouring oil into the filter, how do you get it on, without the oil coming right back out?

I used to do it on my Mini Cooper - but that had the filter mounted vertically.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:31 am 
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The filter for my Metro mounts on a slant, sort of, so I'd say no more than about half full for the filter to keep it from spilling. It's a totally different story for a vertical mounted filter. I had a Ford F150 with a 300 6 cylinder that had a vertically mounted filter, I could never get any oil into it without spilling.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:23 pm 
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so the 5.0 liter filters will fit on the g10 engine? with the oversized filter would it bring the oil capacity up to 4 liters?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:27 pm 
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Yep, they'll fit. Oil capacity should be at least 4 litres, those filters hold a lot of oil.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:56 am 
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turbo3-mk2 wrote:
so the 5.0 liter filters will fit on the g10 engine? with the oversized filter would it bring the oil capacity up to 4 liters?



Assuming that you don't have air conditioning, yes.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:54 am 
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nope just the turbo 3, no a/c

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:12 am 
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It's best to "prime" the system before running the engine. Disable the ignition somehow and crank until the oil light goes out on the dash or you have oil pressure. Reconnect everything, check oil level, have fun :D

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:45 pm 
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Nowhere wrote:
It's best to "prime" the system before running the engine. Disable the ignition somehow and crank until the oil light goes out on the dash or you have oil pressure. Reconnect everything, check oil level, have fun :D


I'm wondering about the logic of this... if you're cranking the engine without oil for the first few cranks, what difference does it make if the engine runs the oil pump on it's own spark or you use the starter to turn it? You've still got no oil pressure either way, and the same parts are still without lubrication for pretty much the same amount of time until the oil pump has pushed the air out... :?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:50 am 
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CJDavE wrote:
I'm wondering about the logic of this... if you're cranking the engine without oil for the first few cranks, what difference does it make if the engine runs the oil pump on it's own spark or you use the starter to turn it? You've still got no oil pressure either way, and the same parts are still without lubrication for pretty much the same amount of time until the oil pump has pushed the air out... :?


Chris

I've wondered about this myself too. Besides, the oil pump primes faster if you just let the engine run anyways.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 12:07 pm 
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If you let the engine run on its own to prime the oil pump, you're putting a lot more stress on the pistons, bearings, etc. Using the starter to prime the pump will allow the engine to just slowly 'freewheel' without much stress being placed on any of the internal components. That being said, it's pretty clear to see that running the engine to prime is going to place extra stress on the pistons, rod bearings, rings and so forth squeezing out any oil between them. Oil that isn't going to be immediately replaced because the oil pump isn't circulating oil yet.

Though it might seem like a short amount of time before the oil pump primes itself, I'd guess that it would be nearly enough time to wipe a bearing clean and possibly do some damage to it. And although there is that possibility as well when just priming with the starter, the risk is greatly reduced due to the lack of added combustion stresses....

Just my theory....

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:59 pm 
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If you want that engine to "freewheel" you'd better pull the plugs as well - otherwise you're cranking against the compression.

On a "newly" built engine, I'm all for cranking it over until all the oil galleries etc., are full of oil before firing up (or on an engine that's been lying idle for a long period - several months), but after a routine oil change, I don't see the need - just as I don't see the need for the larger filter.

OK - so you can put another quart (or part therof) of oil in the system - how does this help, does it run any cooler, does it lubricate any better, does it help if the drain plug "blows" out - no, it's never happened to me - the only thing I can see happening here is that it costs more for the oil change.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:07 pm 
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fordem wrote:
... just as I don't see the need for the larger filter.

OK - so you can put another quart (or part therof) of oil in the system - how does this help, does it run any cooler, does it lubricate any better, does it help if the drain plug "blows" out - no, it's never happened to me - the only thing I can see happening here is that it costs more for the oil change.


I can see a point to adding more oil to the system. May not be much of a point, but the more oil there is the more contaminants can be carried at one time.

So... thinking in terms of concentration of contaminants in oil over a given time, doesn't it stand to reason that the more solvent you have the cleaner it'll be (per litre) after the same amount of time given to accumulate solutes, compared to a lesser volume of oil normally found in our engines?

Mind you that extra litre may mean almost nothing when it comes to protecting our engines from wear. I don't think any of us have the facilities or the time to calculate wear over 2 or 20 oil changes using the stock filters vs. the larger filters.

Also, remember that the larger filters contain a larger surface area of filtration material. Therefore oil flow won't be restricted as quickly as more crap gets stuck in the filter.

Mind you, once again, how clogged will a normal vs. large filter get after 5000kms? Probably not much of a difference in flow. Perhaps a longer interval between changes might make a difference.

I suppose it all comes down to what everyone feels is a smart choice for their engine, whether they like the possibility of adding extra protection to their engines regardless of the price, or not. I personally have a larger filter because it makes me feel better. It may not cause a tangible difference now, but it can't hurt and I don't mind spending the extra $5 per oil change (I use full synthetic).

I think I might've got a bit carried away there. :D


Chris

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:11 pm 
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slazzy2k wrote:
If you let the engine run on its own to prime the oil pump, you're putting a lot more stress on the pistons, bearings, etc. Using the starter to prime the pump will allow the engine to just slowly 'freewheel' without much stress being placed on any of the internal components. That being said, it's pretty clear to see that running the engine to prime is going to place extra stress on the pistons, rod bearings, rings and so forth squeezing out any oil between them. Oil that isn't going to be immediately replaced because the oil pump isn't circulating oil yet.


Good point. I like your reasoning... over the lifetime of an engine, this added stress would probably add up. Don't know how much, but could be enough to make a difference. Might just add this to a list of stuff I think is a good idea, but isn't immediately tangible. :)


Chris

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:48 pm 
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This filter also fits on the 4 banger? Is it for a 5.0L Mustang?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:35 pm 
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Well, Fram lists the same filter for the 3 and 4 cylinder engines, so I'd say the V8 filter would work. The G13A and G13B apparently take a different filter so I don't know if the V8 filter would work. Just ask for a filter for a 92 5 liter Mustang, or have the parts counter cross-reference parts numbers for a Fram PH8A.


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 Post subject: oil filter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:48 pm 
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yes it does fit on a 4 cyl ,, did it on my car ,,
http://www.cardomain.com/id/97swift
go to page 6 to check it out


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 Post subject: Re: oil filter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:15 pm 
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97swifty wrote:
yes it does fit on a 4 cyl ,, did it on my car ,,
http://www.cardomain.com/id/97swift
go to page 6 to check it out


You're using a Fram! Ahhh burn it, that cursed thing! Fram's suck, you can get a better filter usually for the same price or often less than what you pay for a Fram. Napa Gold, Carquest Premium, Mobil 1, Wix, Kralinator, Motorcraft, the new Quaker State filter, Baldwin, Pennzoil all are much better filters than the orange can of death. NExt oil change, go for something better


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:29 am 
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I thought I read something about Quaker State having its filters made by the same filter company FRAM does, and since Pennzoil and Quaker State are one company (techinically speaking) then that X's them off the list. Im still of the opinion of the good ol' purlators from Walmart, whatever their called now.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:52 am 
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From what I've read at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com the new Quaker State (white can with green lettering) are not made by Fram. I believe they're now made by Purolator.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:18 am 
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How does the filter seal sit onto the block? It seems so much bigger in diameter.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:17 pm 
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The oil filter can has a larger diamater, but the sealing ring is of a comperable diamater.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:34 am 
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Metropwr wrote:
How does the filter seal sit onto the block? It seems so much bigger in diameter.


Take the normal filter, then take the V8 filter and hold the two end to end, they match up nearly perfectly. the canister for the V8 filter is a bit bigger in diameter however, should not cause any trouble.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:31 am 
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Uncle_Adolf wrote:
the canister for the V8 filter is a bit bigger in diameter however, should not cause any trouble.


And it won't, unless you have the 1.0L turbo engine... then you'll find that you've got clearance issues with the oil return line from the turbo. Good thing I didn't pay a lot for the filter, since it won't work!

There's another option, not as big as the Ford 5.0L filter, but it's the same dimension around, but about half again as long as the stock size filter. I'm not sure about the part number (the Fram *gasp* number is xx3600), though. Shouldn't be hard to find. Just check out the shelves and look for a similar box that's about 2" taller. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:42 pm 
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Fram also makes a huge (7 inches tall, Fram part # PH977A, Wix 51773, Baldwin BT251) filter for Ford V8 applications. Wonder if there's enough room for that one on the G10 and G13


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